Plethora of "Photo Sharing Sites"

[wmchauncey]

It is my ever humble opinion that most, including our own "User Critiques", C&C websites have abased themselves into nothing more than mere "photo sharing sites".
They have degenerated into a series of, sometimes, well done snapshots that have little chance of hanging on anyone's wall.
Legitimate desire for true C&C, directed toward improvement in one's photography skills, is severely lacking...both in the OP's and the responders.

Should not our goal be to teach those OP's to cough out a product with sufficient grace to adorn someone's wall rather than filler for C&C sites?

[Eric Myrvaagnes]

Perhaps the LuLa Forum needs a new section called Long and Meaningful User Critiques.

[Christoph C. Feldhaim]

Last time when I did serious critique with pointing at obvious flaws of an image I got poisoned PMs from the criticized user about being overcritical.
Nervously interrogating my peer group I got reassured my critique was civilised, justified and not over the top.
Since then I have ignored that user.

In general I try to emphasize what I find good in an image or what could be improved.
If I can't connect to an image I tend not to post at all.

Some people seem only to look for applause.
Some seem very serious about improving.

If you need harder knocks - the message is heard!

Cheers
~Chris

[Rob C]

It is my ever humble opinion that most, including our own "User Critiques", C&C websites have abased themselves into nothing more than mere "photo sharing sites".
They have degenerated into a series of, sometimes, well done snapshots that have little chance of hanging on anyone's wall.
Legitimate desire for true C&C, directed toward improvement in one's photography skills, is severely lacking...both in the OP's and the responders.

Should not our goal be to teach those OP's to cough out a product with sufficient grace to adorn someone's wall rather than filler for C&C sites?

Perhaps the point might be that critique is a waste of time, that most people eventually discover that, and that the more mature employ the space as a form of light entertainment, pricking precious bubbles and having a giggle at the antics of those who take it all so seriously.

The best function that LuLa can offer, apart from education in how things can be done, is to provide a photographer's showcase, and that's what parts of the site do very well.

Rob C

[dhancock]

My thought: I think a square crop would do much better!

[Jeremy Roussak]

Perhaps the LuLa Forum needs a new section called Long and Meaningful User Critiques.

You've not forgotten RedwoodGuy already, have you, Eric? He managed Long, anyway.

There are a good few people here who provide critiques which I for one find interesting and valuable. I've learned a huge amount from comments on both my and other peoples' photos. Yes, there are some who post on User Critiques with the expectation only of praise, get hurt when non-adulatory comments are made and react with venom; they can be ignored. I hope people keep putting their shots in the line of fire and I hope the critiques keep coming. They're valuable.

Jeremy

[Eric Myrvaagnes]

You've not forgotten RedwoodGuy already, have you, Eric? He managed Long, anyway.

There are a good few people here who provide critiques which I for one find interesting and valuable. I've learned a huge amount from comments on both my and other peoples' photos. Yes, there are some who post on User Critiques with the expectation only of praise, get hurt when non-adulatory comments are made and react with venom; they can be ignored. I hope people keep putting their shots in the line of fire and I hope the critiques keep coming. They're valuable.

Jeremy

No, Jeremy, I haven't forgotten RwG!

For me, the critiques on LuLa fall into four categories.
1.   Some actually teach me something, about the photo presented or about processing techniques.
2.   Many simply provide some entertainment.
3.   Many, including many of the very short ones (such as "+1," or "Nice!" -- which I am often guilty of) serve to calibrate my own judgment and value system.
4.   A few, long or short, tell me nothing except about the critic's own ego.

So I agree: almost all of the critiques have some value (even Rob's diatribes against criticism, which for me fit in my 2nd category).

Eric

[Rob C]

No, Jeremy, I haven't forgotten RwG!

For me, the critiques on LuLa fall into four categories.
1.   Some actually teach me something, about the photo presented or about processing techniques.
2.   Many simply provide some entertainment.
3.   Many, including many of the very short ones (such as "+1," or "Nice!" -- which I am often guilty of) serve to calibrate my own judgment and value system.
4.   A few, long or short, tell me nothing except about the critic's own ego.

So I agree: almost all of the critiques have some value (even Rob's diatribes against criticism, which for me fit in my 2nd category).

Eric

Glad to be of service!

;-)

Rob C

[Eric Myrvaagnes]

Glad to be of service!

;-)

Rob C

Ah, Rob! Your photos (Lady C series, for example, as well as your classics on your website) more than make up for your minor errors on the question of the potential value of critiques.   

Eric

[Rob C]

Ah, Rob! Your photos (Lady C series, for example, as well as your classics on your website) more than make up for your minor errors on the question of the potential value of critiques.   

Eric

Well, Eric, I do appreciate the critique above!

(That it almost matches my ego's own modest appreciation of itself is no disincentive to agreeing with your summation.)

;-)

Rob C

[Eric Myrvaagnes]

Hey, Rob! You wanna start another fight, huh?
MY EGO is bigger than your ego!!!

[BernardLanguillier]

True, the social dimension of most sites has mostly eaten alive the value added part.

Now, to be fair, the more advanced you are, the more complex it becomes to provide criticism that is really useful to progress. I am focusing here on people that have a reasonable chance to remain photographers in the long run.

It is pretty much a given that everyone's technique is flawless and that our gear is not limiting us significantly, right?

So moving forward can typically only be enabled by discussions about vision and intent that end up not being related to the physical act of capturing an image. That frustrates more than a few photographers who are addicted to the physical proximity with cameras and gear.

The best advice that could be given to many people asking for real criticism may be to stop taking photographs for a while, sit and think.  

The beauty that we are somehow all seeking to generate is mechanical in parts, but at the end is never quite successful unless there is a powerful underlying thought process. Commenting on a single image is rarely useful and I would go as far as saying that asking comments on a single image without providing visibility on the why is pretty much useless. There, I said it.  

Cheers,
Bernard

[Rob C]

True, the social dimension of most sites has mostly eaten alive the value added part.

Now, to be fair, the more advanced you are, the more complex it becomes to provide criticism that is really useful to progress. I am focusing here on people that have a reasonable chance to remain photographers in the long run.

It is pretty much a given that everyone's technique is flawless and that our gear is not limiting us significantly, right?

So moving forward can typically only be enabled by discussions about vision and intent that end up not being related to the physical act of capturing an image. That frustrates more than a few photographers who are addicted to the physical proximity with cameras and gear.

The best advice that could be given to many people asking for real criticism may be to stop taking photographs for a while, sit and think.  

The beauty that we are somehow all seeking to generate is mechanical in parts, but at the end is never quite successful unless there is a powerful underlying thought process. Commenting on a single image is rarely useful and I would go as far as saying that asking comments on a single image without providing visibility on the why is pretty much useless. There, I said it.  

Cheers,
Bernard

I agree; perhaps they will listen to you if not to me... but I doubt it: the dream of buying magic is too powerful. Perhaps if I find the right music site with the right 'critiquers' someone will reach me how to become a musician.

But I'd hold not my breath for the duration of such a journey, even were I foolish enough to believe in its value.

Rob C

[Dave (Isle of Skye)]

Personally I think forum C&C's are a good thing, not without a variety of flaws of course, but on the whole, a good thing.

Amusing link.

But then again we can so easily argue that forum C&C's are a bad thing, but until we find a better way.. 

Dave

[Christoph C. Feldhaim]

True, the social dimension of most sites has mostly eaten alive the value added part.

Now, to be fair, the more advanced you are, the more complex it becomes to provide criticism that is really useful to progress. I am focusing here on people that have a reasonable chance to remain photographers in the long run.

It is pretty much a given that everyone's technique is flawless and that our gear is not limiting us significantly, right?

So moving forward can typically only be enabled by discussions about vision and intent that end up not being related to the physical act of capturing an image. That frustrates more than a few photographers who are addicted to the physical proximity with cameras and gear.

The best advice that could be given to many people asking for real criticism may be to stop taking photographs for a while, sit and think.  

The beauty that we are somehow all seeking to generate is mechanical in parts, but at the end is never quite successful unless there is a powerful underlying thought process. Commenting on a single image is rarely useful and I would go as far as saying that asking comments on a single image without providing visibility on the why is pretty much useless. There, I said it.  

Cheers,
Bernard

+1
Well said, Bernard.

[wolfnowl]

In general I try to emphasize what I find good in an image or what could be improved.
If I can't connect to an image I tend not to post at all.

Some people seem only to look for applause.
Some seem very serious about improving.

My thoughts exactly! Although I'm sure Christoph and I have differences over what we like.  

Mike.

P.S. Our local photography group has people ranging from seasoned pros to absolute newbies, and one of the organizers is running 2-week series of shoots and critiques on a given theme.  It's interesting to me to read the varied responses from people with regard to the same image, and often I gain perspectives I wouldn't have considered before.