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Author Topic: Contax 645 prices surprisingly high.  (Read 13427 times)

Theodoros

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Contax 645 prices surprisingly high.
« on: February 09, 2014, 04:00:48 pm »

It is almost a decade that the camera has been discontinued, yet the S/H prices seem to be rising… How is this explained?  The demand seems higher than it should be.
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Colorwave

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Re: Contax 645 prices surprisingly high.
« Reply #1 on: February 09, 2014, 04:17:43 pm »

Perhaps it's the fact that it is a good system?  There is a consistent demand, and a fixed supply.
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JV

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Re: Contax 645 prices surprisingly high.
« Reply #2 on: February 09, 2014, 04:23:24 pm »

I sold my Contax 645 4 years ago.  Since then prices have only gone up.  A kit probably costs $1,000 more now than it did 4 years ago.

Supposedly the camera is very popular amongst wedding photographers with Jose Villa being quoted as very influential:
http://www.interviewsbycrashtaylor.com/2009/05/15/crash-taylor-interviews-jose-villa/
http://josevillablog.com

I don't believe the Contax 645 is being considered as a digital platform by most buyers.  

Most people who buy them seem to use them for film.  Used Contax digital backs are also pretty rare.

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EinstStein

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Re: Contax 645 prices surprisingly high.
« Reply #3 on: February 09, 2014, 04:32:14 pm »

My observation is it's opposite. The price is dropping, although it's still high. For example, a 120mm lens was about $1300 an year or two ago, but now it is usually under $1000.  
The reason it is dropping is the result of the diminishing supply of digital back, not the dropping of the demand. You can hardly find any digital back for Contax 645.

If you happen to see one, get it immediately. As far as I can tell, the price is usually very good. Typically a 39mp digital back will be around $8000~$12000. It will be at the high end if it is Contax mount and low end if it is for Hasselblad H1/H2.

Hasselblad H1/H2 is getting cheap too. This is also due to the lack of digital back. You are likely to pay more for the lens. It would be about 20~30% more expensive then Contax for a 3 lenses system (wide, standard, and mid-tele).
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Eric Myrvaagnes

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Re: Contax 645 prices surprisingly high.
« Reply #4 on: February 09, 2014, 05:21:58 pm »

Prices for used Beseler 4x5" enlargers like mine, on the other hand...  ;)
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Theodoros

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Re: Contax 645 prices surprisingly high.
« Reply #5 on: February 09, 2014, 06:07:00 pm »

P1 representative, when interviewed by Michael in lula claimed that "they have a surprisingly high number of MFDB orders from Contax owners", both Leaf and P1 make Contax fit for all their backs… It also seems that the lenses are very popular among Leica S system owners and prices of lenses which have dropped for a while, now start rising back...
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Doug Peterson

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Re: Contax 645 prices surprisingly high.
« Reply #6 on: February 09, 2014, 06:33:53 pm »

My observation is it's opposite. The price is dropping, although it's still high. For example, a 120mm lens was about $1300 an year or two ago, but now it is usually under $1000.  
The reason it is dropping is the result of the diminishing supply of digital back, not the dropping of the demand. You can hardly find any digital back for Contax 645.
---
Hasselblad H1/H2 is getting cheap too. This is also due to the lack of digital back. You are likely to pay more for the lens. It would be about 20~30% more expensive then Contax for a 3 lenses system (wide, standard, and mid-tele).

I guess you are talking about used back availability?

Because Leaf/P1 both produce every back they make in a Contax-mount and H-mount option (which works on H1/H2 as well as H4X).

EinstStein

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Re: Contax 645 prices surprisingly high.
« Reply #7 on: February 09, 2014, 06:40:42 pm »

You are absolutely right. But the OP is talking about the used Contax pricing.
Contax DB is still relatively rarer compared to other MF systems. That affects a lot on market price.

Yes, if the price of new DB makes sense, it will bring up the camera's price. Your are welcome to do so.
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Brian Hirschfeld

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Re: Contax 645 prices surprisingly high.
« Reply #8 on: February 09, 2014, 08:29:43 pm »

It is still an amazing system and many people still love them. You can still get PhaseOne and MamiyaLeaf backs for them (I believe) and even so, people use them as their workhorse cameras, and if they have an investment in say like a P65+ invested into the Contax mount and your body dies, you can't get it repaired I don't think and it this point in time since they are no longer making the system, there are a fixed amount of them and in scarcity the price goes ^^^. Great system beautifully mechanical, great lenses, shame the brand is gone.
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synn

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Re: Contax 645 prices surprisingly high.
« Reply #9 on: February 09, 2014, 08:39:44 pm »

On a related note, It's a shame that one has to jump through a ton of hoops to get a digital back on a Bronica ETRSi. Now there's a workhorse system if there ever was one. Beautifully rendering lenses and everything is now dirt cheap.
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EinstStein

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Re: Contax 645 prices surprisingly high.
« Reply #10 on: February 09, 2014, 08:40:35 pm »

Get the second Contax body, it should cover the concern. It's dirt cheap.
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Steve Hendrix

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Re: Contax 645 prices surprisingly high.
« Reply #11 on: February 09, 2014, 10:41:50 pm »

You are absolutely right. But the OP is talking about the used Contax pricing.
Contax DB is still relatively rarer compared to other MF systems. That affects a lot on market price.

Yes, if the price of new DB makes sense, it will bring up the camera's price. Your are welcome to do so.


Yes, if it is rarer, that can affect market price - usually higher, though not always.

I would expect a product like the Contax system to have a fluctuating market price due to the perceived and real scarcity of the system as well as the low sample rate compared to other systems that are more popular, where prices are typically more consistent.


Steve Hendrix
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EinstStein

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Re: Contax 645 prices surprisingly high.
« Reply #12 on: February 10, 2014, 12:44:46 am »

Leica M film is in the similar situation. It is still strong in the used market. I think Contax 645 has about the same size of volume.
Leica M 's lens had a low time right before M8/M9. I remembered the Tri-Elmar 28-35-50mm ran for about $1500. Since the resurrection of the digital M8/M9, the price jumps like crazy.
But I do not expect Phase DB to have the same effect to Contax 645.

Phase One has very good DB, but the camera and the lens system have not created the marketing heat like Contax/Zeiss.
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haplo602

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Re: Contax 645 prices surprisingly high.
« Reply #13 on: February 10, 2014, 02:40:31 am »

It's not only Contax. The Mamiya 645 AFD (1,2,3) are also somewhat higher in price on the auction site compared to a year ago.

However the Contax keeps it's price because it's a great camera (and excelent lenses).
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Theodoros

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Re: Contax 645 prices surprisingly high.
« Reply #14 on: February 10, 2014, 03:58:18 am »

It is still an amazing system and many people still love them. You can still get PhaseOne and MamiyaLeaf backs for them (I believe) and even so, people use them as their workhorse cameras, and if they have an investment in say like a P65+ invested into the Contax mount and your body dies, you can't get it repaired I don't think and it this point in time since they are no longer making the system, there are a fixed amount of them and in scarcity the price goes ^^^. Great system beautifully mechanical, great lenses, shame the brand is gone.
Don't know about the States, but Tritec in Europe (Germany) does service Contax and they also provide spare parts… Never the less, reliability seems to be in a high level.
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Theodoros

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Re: Contax 645 prices surprisingly high.
« Reply #15 on: February 10, 2014, 04:05:25 am »

On a related note, It's a shame that one has to jump through a ton of hoops to get a digital back on a Bronica ETRSi. Now there's a workhorse system if there ever was one. Beautifully rendering lenses and everything is now dirt cheap.
That's (ETRSi) what I was using for 20 years, before I switched to Contax on 2005… It seems that MFDBs are much easier integrated into a system if there is no cocking of the shutter involved… Hence the MF cameras that have a build in motor in the film back to advance film, are easier to work with MFDBs… Part of the reason why Contax has such a strong market presence...
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lowep

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Re: Contax 645 prices surprisingly high.
« Reply #16 on: February 10, 2014, 11:23:27 am »

what better platform for MFDB can you get for a comparable price?
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bcooter

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Re: Contax 645 prices surprisingly high.
« Reply #17 on: February 10, 2014, 03:18:19 pm »

what better platform for MFDB can you get for a comparable price?

Probably nothing as well built, including the hasselblad H.

The only issues with the Contax is the prism viewfinder is a somewhat small view, think mamiya df and of course if you need in shutter lenses, they don't exist, though that's becoming less of an issue for us as we have moved so much of our production to constant lighting.

I don't follow used prices, but from time to time go onto KEH which used to have a fairly large supply of contax, though today I think they have one lens, so either the cameras are wearing down, or people just decided to keep theirs and not upgrade to another platform.

Everybody knows the lenses are sharp, the cameras are smooth and the camera has a much different character when used with the waist level finder.

It is a camera you have to become use to.  It's very robust, (except th exposed shutter if you change backs and it MUST have constant contact between the prism, the lenses and the back, so all contacts must be kept Cartier polished clean.   In autofocus it will also run through batteries and the right angle grip should only be used to finish the set, not as a run until dead system.

The other plus is being focal plane their are so many lenses available, I can't imagine a situation you can't produce a certain look and if you really wanted to go crazy, you can have cinema lens companies make adapters or mounts for about any lens that will cover the frame.

There is also not a 100mm f2 lens other than the Hasselblad F 2 110 which I use, but only from 2.8 on as stopping down and focusing is not easy, wide open it's a snap.

The only other downside is my case is just huge, but that's me, not the average user.   You could easily use it as a street camera with an 80 f2. a waist level finder, no right angle grip and a strap.

With a fast back like the p21 it shoots just about as fast and response and medium format film.

I have to admit I'm still amazed that the complete line was closed as they covered rangefinder, medium format and 35mm dslr.  

In regards to repairs, the few I've had have been completed well and since I have double everything, it doesn't make it an issue, other than don't expect to walk into your local rental studio's equipment department and ask for a lens if yours packs up, because they don't have them anymore.

Actually, I've gone multiple times and tried and priced all medium format brands, hasselblad, phase, leaf and other than the rear screen, of the newer backs, I don't really need a different system, as I'm not over the moon about a gazillion megapixels anyway.

That's the reason I bought the Leica S2.  It allowed me use of my contax lenses, with a little better lcd and made the system more mobile.

Great cameras, but not for everyone.

IMO

BC
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Theodoros

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Re: Contax 645 prices surprisingly high.
« Reply #18 on: February 10, 2014, 03:27:55 pm »

what better platform for MFDB can you get for a comparable price?
MO is none… However there are people that find the AF "outdated" or they need higher sync speed… I guess it's a matter of needs and compromises… I know people that think of Contax more than Hassy H, but they still got the Hassy (or other) because of the above.
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Telecaster

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Re: Contax 645 prices surprisingly high.
« Reply #19 on: February 10, 2014, 03:46:40 pm »

I have to admit I'm still amazed that the complete line was closed as they covered rangefinder, medium format and 35mm dslr.

IMO that was a consequence of Kyocera being a dabbler (by intent) in the photo world. Kinda like how Fuji and Ricoh now are but with even less upper-level commitment/interest. Digital confronted them with the need to get more serious about the whole enterprise, to invest more in R&D...and after a start in that direction they blinked and changed course. Not worth the bother.

-Dave-
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