Installation Mounting Questions

[Deadhumpy]

I've learned a lot reading through the various threads the last few weeks, and want to thank all of you who share your information. I have a installation project coming up in a local library, and i'm wondering if anyone would like to share some opionions on how to mount it. The project will be made of multiple panels, probably six 40x60inch that form a panorama image. The project needs to last 60 to 80 years. The panels will be displayed in a relatively high traffic area, so physical durability is very important. I have several options I'm considering. Fist I have a canon 8400 and would be doing my own printing. First option is a canvas gallery wrap style, probably using BC canvas with their timeless overcoat. This is probably the easiest and least expensive option. Second option would be canvas dry mounted to gatorboard, sealed and a thin frame to protect the edges. Third option is using a canson paper dry mounted to gator board with a tough dry mounted laminate for protection, also a thin frame for the edges. Another option would be to have duraplaq style mounts made. I could either purchase my own cold press or have this work done by someone else and shipped to me. I live in alaska so shipping of large panels adds up, hence the option of buying my own press and potentially doing the panels my self. The last option which is probably the most expensive would be aluminum panels. I know these are tough but worry about scratches on very expensive panels. I would appreciate any kind of feed back. Right now I have some time and am exploring my options. There is enough money for me to invest into a new system, like a cold press or even dye sublimation. I could make use of either of these systems in my other businesses. Thank you

[Wayne Fox]

Just curious if the 60-80 year life is your expectation or part of the specifications for the project.  Seems pretty optimistic, .  I can't think of many 40 year old buildings that haven't seen major interior changes over the years, let alone 80 year old ones.

I don't think canvas gallery wraps wouldn't make it. Maybe the inks won't fade much (depends on what the type and amount of light hitting the image) , but I'm not sure the bonding between the canvas and the inkjet receptor coat will hold up. Most art of that age on canvas will exhibit some issues, often major ones, so not sure photographic art on canvas will fair any differently.  Accelerated aging tests on pigment and some other qualities are somewhat useful, but the daily expansion/humidity absorption/drying effects which would wear on that bond, not sure how you can really test that.

Being that size and wanting that much longevity seems pretty challenging  ...

[Deadhumpy]

Wayne,
Thanks for the reply. I don't have a lot of experience with canvas. I've just recently have been trying out the breathing colors lines. I think they print really nicely but worry about the finish on them. I need more experience with coating them. Most of my experience is with laminating photos to acid free foam core. I know most people would be horrified by that, but I have a very small cheap market for prints. Some of my original prints were done on a r1800 and foam cored. They may have faded some it's hard to tell, but over all they have held up really well. We're talking about 15 years so far. So I'm wondering about dry mounting verses using a cold press to different substrates, mainly gatorboard. Also I think aluminum is an option, but I'm having a hard time finding data on the longevity of the prints. The panels will be hanging out of any kind of direct sunlight and temperature fluctuation will be a minimum. I'd appreciate anyone's take on dry mount vs pressure press vs dye sublimation.  Thanks

[John Nollendorfs]

You don't mention how much "wear & tear" these panels would be subjected to. Would they be set in a location and not be physically moved? Or would they be periodically set up, and then taken down and stored?

In my experience with large pieces, physical damage is the most likely thing you have to contend with. Gator board is nice to deal with, since it is quite light and easy to move, but corner and edge damage is quite likely to occur also.  With Gallery wrapped canvases, physical damage of the corners is highly likely, as well as damage from being poked by sharp objects. Just something to think about. I would be nervous about trying to dry mount canvas to Gator board that large. Several people have used Miracle Muck http://raphaelsap.com/miraclemuckandaccessories.aspx and Gator Board with good results, just don't know how it would last in your given environment. Canvas tends to move a lot more depending on humidity conditions compared with the Gator Board.

Regarding Dye sublimation printing, such as on aluminum, I don't think you would get the kind of life-span with "fade free" results you maybe looking for. Also, doing the transfer, would require a rather large heat press. And of course aluminum that large is quite heavy also!

In any event, some sort of sealing of the inkjet print is necessary to prevent premature failure due to atmospheric contaminates. For Canvas, the water based vinyl acrylics seem to do a good job. For a print on paper, you will need to experiment to find the heat/cold laminate, or liquid laminate that gives you the look you want.

[Deadhumpy]

Thanks John for the input. The panels will be permanent and will be hanging in a location where the public could potentially come in contact with them, such as a kid swinging his backpack etc. The more I think about it I don't think canvas is the right solution and I think dye sublimation is to much of an unknown. So this would leave me with either dry mounting or cold mounting using a pressure laminate. I've had a few duraplaq style mount done recently and they had a very tough laminate applied. The only way I could scratch it would be with a key and a lot of pressure. The laminates I've used with dry mounting have not been as tough, does anyone know if they have tough dry mounting options? The next question would be the substrate for the backing. With either dry mounting or cold mounting I think I will probably have to frame the edges to protect them. Would gatorboard last with either a dry mount or cold press? The duraplaq mount I had was cold pressed to a ultra high density board. Would this be a better route to take? to seal the board with a over coat them cold press over the top of that? Thank you guys very much for the responses. I appreciate the help.

[John Nollendorfs]

Something cheap and quite durable to use as a substrate could be Masonite, or Masonite bath panels. The bath panels are nice because they have a smooth white finish. I've mounted crack & peel type printable vinyl to them with good results. (But tricky to apply!) And then sprayed the mounted vinyl with the same vinyl acrylic spray as with canvas to seal.

Another popular substrate is Dibond--more expensive than Gatorboard though! (like Gatorboard but with a thin aluminum skin instead of paper)

Hope that helps!

[Wayne Fox]

both masonite and Gator may be problematic with the stated desired lifetime.  Chromaluxe dye sub panels would be a good choice as far as physical durability, but longevity testing on these panels which brag about 2-4 times better are comparing to chromgenic processes such as Fuji Crystal Archive.  Also if you look at the measurements, it shows chromaluxe magenta fading to be at a different speed than other colors, more pronounced than chromogenic papers, indicating a possible green color shift over time.

So the challenge is whether there is a mounting/printing process that could actually make it 60-80 years, both physically was well as fade resistant.  Any mounting process could easily and will most likely fail in that time period, and protecting it from physical damage may be next to impossible.

So tough call, but I don’t think there is an answer - there is no way to guarantee or even be confident of that durability. Some part of the process .... inks and color, physical damage, adhesive, etc. ... will most likely fail.

Given that, certainly the best option is to familiarize the buyer with all of the possible choices with the pros and cons of each and let them choose.  To me Chromaluxe aluminum may be the best option of all, less components to fail, pretty durable to surface cleaning and other problems, and probably decent fade resistance.

If the 60-80 year life is critical, then seems inkjet print mounted to dibond. This would also require an acrylic front, which may need to be replaced on occasion if it becomes damaged.