Diasec Gel or Substitute for Face Mounting Acrylic?

[Brad P]

I would like to use Diasec (silicon gel and primer) or a substitute to face mount my own photos in-house with my laminator.  I can't locate a supplier for Diasec products or a substitute brand that has been successfully used for face mounting.  I have found printing companies that use Diasec and other products, but can't seem to find a supplier for those products myself for in house use.

Does anyone know where I could purchase Diasec primers/gels to use with my personal laminator or is there any good substitute? 

As an aside, I've looked into films and have seen conservationists mention more problems with films than Diasec over the long term (e.g., delimitation and spider webs due to expansion/contraction of plexiglass due to humidity, silvering, yellowing).  From what I can tell, silicone gel is the closest thing one can get to archival for face mounting.  Any challenges to that conclusion are welcome too. 

FYI, background on silicone vs film face mounting below
www.aiccm.org.au/sites/default/files/SMITHPaper.pdf
atelierdeimpressao.com.br/Queens_Thesis_Juergens.pdf.
www.martinjuergens.net/Assets/download/IIC_Diasec_Laminate.pdf

[Ernst Dinkla]

Whatever archival means the conclusion in the paper of Juergens is not positive on print longevity. The testing was done with C-prints so does not tell anything about inkjet prints either. There are more reports but all quite old though. I have not seen recent tests and reports on both licensed Diasec inkjet print mounts or alternative face mounting processes like encasting with acrylic liquids. The Diasec process is most actively supported by Wilcovak in the Netherlands, including the education of new licensees. I do not think you can get access to the Diasec basic materials as an amateur.


--
Met vriendelijke groet, Ernst

http://www.pigment-print.com/spectralplots/spectrumviz_1.htm
January 2014, 600+ inkjet media white spectral plots.

[Brad P]

Agree with what you've written. 

Are you aware of any silicone gels and primers that are used instead of Diasec on photos that are available to us?   

There are many types of silicon gels I've found other than Diasec, but all are geared toward non-photographic, industrial applications.  Acetic acid outgassing seems to be the main problem with various types of silicone gels especially regarding magenta and yellow fading.  Importantly, the modern Diasec process uses a primer first on the image (a first coat on the inkjet or C-Print before the gel between that and the acrylic plate).   

I'm looking into this because it seems to make sense that silicones are more flexible than film adhesives, and they expand and contract with plexiglas better over time as the best literature I've found suggest.  Face mounting is controversial sure, but it's a beautiful look to many, and one I want to pursue if I can make it as long lasting as possible.   

Danke Ernst

[Brad P]

Bump

Forgive me.  This is my first time bumping up ever.  But hopefully someone will know what I'm talking about and care.

[Brad P]

Does anyone know where to purchase Diasec primers/gels or is there any good substitute? 

[BrianWJH]

Hi Brad, guess that there's either not much interest or experience with Diasec alternatives, you might have more luck over on these framing specific sites if you haven't already tried them:

http://www.thegrumble.com/forum.php

http://www.theframersforum.com

Brian.

[dgberg]

Does anyone know where to purchase Diasec primers/gels or is there any good substitute?  

The diasec process is fairly complex and is also patented.
You may find someone that is trying something else but I doubt it.
Once you get past the learning curve and have a controlled environment facemounting on plexi is economical to pursue.

[PatrickAllen]

You can only use Diasec if you pay for the license which they are now starting to sell in the US. Juergen's article references GE products a lot so I would contact them as I believe most places in the states using the silicon process are using GE products. He specifically states, "The primer examined here, GE Silicones SS 4179, is that which is recommended for the preparation of an acrylic sheet surface for the GE Silicones sealants SCS 1000 and 1200 by the manufacturer (GE Silicones 2000a)"

I would not be so quick to discount the film adhesives. From what I recall in Juergen's article there are no major issues with the film adhesive used, correct? There is some delamination when kept at 55C or 131F for 20 days but in proper display conditions this is not going to be an issue. This was also written in 2001 and only examined one film adhesive manufacturer.

Miranda Smith makes some good points but if you look at her bio she is the only licensed Diasec provider in Australia. It makes sense that Diasec is the best option for her. $$

I believe there are tens of thousands more photographs mounted in museums, exhibitions and collections using film adhesives then silicone and there is no degradation to many of these pieces. Mirada states:  "If the mounting has been applied using appropriate mounting techniques and manufacturing procedures, the bond will hold indefinitely." She then goes on to say that they will fail but does not present any evidence of this.

Best,
Patrick Allen
Ken Allen Studios

[Brad P]

Thanks for all the thoughts and Patrick, pulling out the quote for the GE products.  I missed that but will be looking it up.

Regarding using film vs. silicone, what I'm reading and hearing is that plexiglass expands and contracts with humidity and temperature.  Over time, the film becomes more and more brittle and that causes silvering and/or delamination especially around the edges.  Silicone remains more flexible and better able to survive that.
 

[Wayne Fox]

Thanks for all the thoughts and Patrick, pulling out the quote for the GE products.  I missed that but will be looking it up.

Regarding using film vs. silicone, what I'm reading and hearing is that plexiglass expands and contracts with humidity and temperature.  Over time, the film becomes more and more brittle and that causes silvering and/or delamination especially around the edges.  Silicone remains more flexible and better able to survive that.
 

expansion/contraction of a face mounted print would be caused by temperature fluctuations, and to a smaller extent around the edges perhaps to humidity.  Since a face mounted product will most likely be displayed in a temperature controlled environment, seems that would be minimal and probably negligible, and I don’t think the edge penetration of humidity would fluctuate enough.  face mounting using film has been around a very long time (decades), is widely used, and has a pretty good track record.  Currently used by many  photographers in the US.  Also you can face mount some inkjet materials, something hard to do with with diasec.  I think the only way to do it with diasec is to laminate the print first (film) to keep the silicone from dissolving the inks.

[acktdi]

Has anyone tried using Timeless as a face mounting adhesive?  I wonder if it would dry completely when attached to plexi. 

[dgberg]

Drying would be the least of your worries.
Have you ever seen the process?
You need a clean room almost surgical in nature and you want to put a liquid like Timeless on the plexi face?
The answer is no.
You can use Glamor II to mount prints but it goes on the backs not the front.

[Andres Toodo]

Just a note about acrylic glass. There are two types of acrylics. Extruded and cast. Cast is more stable and strongly recommended over extruded glass. As i do face mounting around four years i have seen that extruded glass is also more prone to bending. Even if there is Dibond mounted behind the print and built aluminium U profile frame back of the print sometimes the print still bends. Plexiglass marks extruded glass as XT and cast glass GS.