Brain surgery

[Tony Hubcaps]

I remember studying brain surgery two evenings a week at the local technical college... it was
a doddle compared to digital printing!

Sorry, this is no doubt a stupid question...

Generally with Canon 9500ii, I have been using LR manages colour so that correct profile can
be selected for Ilford paper.

But - with Canon's PP Plus Glossy II this produces very murky results, possibly because I've been
using the wrong profile, and I've set Printer manages colour: this works very well and of course
PPP G II is a paper type so no profile needed (?).

Which has got me thinking....

Q. If printer manages colour is there any way to apply profiles if you want to???  It seems that to use
profiles you must choose application manages colour.  Or have I missed something?

Thanks

[Tony Jay]

Q. If printer manages colour is there any way to apply profiles if you want to???  It seems that to use
profiles you must choose application manages colour.  Or have I missed something?

Yes, you have!
What you are suggesting is what is called "Double colour management" and the results are never good.
Either the printer manages colour or you do (via the application of the correct paper/printer profile).
It is ALWAYS an 'either/or' scenario and NEVER an 'and' scenario.

What you need is a good primer on colour-management.
LuLa's "Camera to Print and Screen" is an absolute must for you.
Your comments about not requiring an ICC profile for printing with a Canon paper in a Canon printer are not correct (if you are trying to colour-manage, that is).
This stuff is not that hard to understand but without an understanding of certain principles you will continue to flounder.
Go and listen to Jeff and Michael in the CPS tutorial - you will not regret it, I promise you.

Tony Jay

[Gareth ONeill]

As Tony said, you want to do one or the other.

LR (or photoshop or whatever) should know the source profile (i.e. your workspace), but not the output profile. If you are using LR manages colour make sure you turn OFF colour management in the print driver and select the correct output profile in the LR setup. Then LR will know input and output and be able to covert effectively, and the printer will just do what it's told.

If you want to use printer manages (and in some cases you DO get a better print this way), you need to tell the printer the input profile as it does NOT know your workspace, and the output, as it does not know this either. The default medias of your printer should have output profiles associated with them, though they will not be as accurate as custom ones. You may even be able to find one on the net which you find more pleasing.

Are you soft proofing in LR? Have you compared a soft proof to a print in good light? It should be fairly accurate if everything is set up correctly. If your soft proofs look good, then you most likely have colour management turned on in the print driver or you have a bad output profile.

[Tony Hubcaps]

Thank you both.
I'll check out this tutorial.

When it comes to "turning off colour management in print driver", I've been going LR, Print Module,
Page Setup / Properties - I get the 'standard' 4-tab dialog.  Quick, Main, Page Setup, Maintenance.
Then from 'Main' - Set Colour/Intensity to manual, and colour matching = none.

Is that right?  More I think about it, I can't remember where I got that idea from!

b). Presumably LR tells the printer "input profile", eg, ProPhoto RGB ??
c). Output profile - this is where I've been getting a bit confused... if I'm using Ilford GFS, and for the sake
of argument I wanted colour 'managed by printer', then I would choose media type = (Canon) Photo Glossy II...
So are we saying that this is me telling the printer what the output profile is, it's just that it can't be specified
completely accurately (ie = GFS) by this method?

[Gareth ONeill]

Then from 'Main' - Set Colour/Intensity to manual, and colour matching = none. yes this sounds right for LR manages colour.

Yes, LR knows source profile.

You can't print as you have suggested with those settings (c).

The standard settings are designed for use with the manufacturer's (Canon in your case) own papers. The output profile is for that specific media. They might be OK with IGFS, but they will be far from accurate.

To print with "printer manages" you will need to

a. find where you tell the print driver the source colourspace and set it appropriately.
b. tell the printer to use the Canon 9500ii IGFS ICC you have installed.

(i managed to find your manual and have attached the relevant part).

You will need to change your LR workspace to aRGB as the print driver has no prophoto.

[Tony Jay]

Thank you both.
I'll check out this tutorial.

When it comes to "turning off colour management in print driver", I've been going LR, Print Module,
Page Setup / Properties - I get the 'standard' 4-tab dialog.  Quick, Main, Page Setup, Maintenance.
Then from 'Main' - Set Colour/Intensity to manual, and colour matching = none.

Is that right?  More I think about it, I can't remember where I got that idea from!

b). Presumably LR tells the printer "input profile", eg, ProPhoto RGB ??
c). Output profile - this is where I've been getting a bit confused... if I'm using Ilford GFS, and for the sake
of argument I wanted colour 'managed by printer', then I would choose media type = (Canon) Photo Glossy II...
So are we saying that this is me telling the printer what the output profile is, it's just that it can't be specified
completely accurately (ie = GFS) by this method?

Tony, you just need to get a grip on the fundamentals first before coming back with more questions.
You will then see that the questions become much more directed and focused.

Tony Jay

[hugowolf]

You will need to change your LR workspace to aRGB as the print driver has no prophoto.

You cannot change the Lightroom working color space. If you want AdobeRGB, you would need to export the file as a TIFF or JPEG with the color space set for AdobeRGB. Or, you can print to a file instead of a printer, and do the same thing.

To be honest, it is just a lot easier to let Lr do the color managing, and it gives you a workflow you can use for name brand papers as well as Canon papers.

(BTW: There is an AppleRGB and an AdobeRGB, but no aRGB).

Brian A

[Tony Hubcaps]

I'll do some more reading.

Thanks everybody.