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Author Topic: A few basics on matt and glossy  (Read 2430 times)

Tony Hubcaps

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A few basics on matt and glossy
« on: February 02, 2014, 10:01:09 am »

Sorry, sure the answers to these questions are all over the place, but it would be helpful
to my poor old brain to have them concise and in one place.

OUTPUT SHARPENING

When software like LR offers the choice between sharpen for matt or gloss, what will it
actually do?

Smaller radius sharpening for matt paper and more of it, and vice versa?  Or vice versa??


PAPER CHOICE OUTPUT

When we tell the printer the paper type is gloss or matt, what are we saying in effect?
Shoot more ink out if matt is chosen?


BLACK INKS

Printers like the Canon Pro's have two different blank inks loaded, as I understand it one
for matt paper and one for glossy.  So what happens when the chosen paper type
is semi-gloss??


Thanks
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hugowolf

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Re: A few basics on matt and glossy
« Reply #1 on: February 02, 2014, 02:23:41 pm »

OUTPUT SHARPENING
When software like LR offers the choice between sharpen for matt or gloss, what will it
actually do? Smaller radius sharpening for matt paper and more of it, and vice versa?  Or vice versa??

I don't know. It is proprietary knowledge. I think Pixel Genius had a hand in the creation of the sharpening algorithms, perhaps you could contact them.

PAPER CHOICE OUTPUT
When we tell the printer the paper type is gloss or matt, what are we saying in effect?
Shoot more ink out if matt is chosen?

If you are talking about Lr, then it is only the sharpenning. If you are talking about in the driver's dialog, then paper choice does affect ink loading, along with thickness, platten gap, etc.


BLACK INKS
Printers like the Canon Pro's have two different blank inks loaded, as I understand it one
for matt paper and one for glossy.  So what happens when the chosen paper type
is semi-gloss??

The pigment ink printers do, but not the dye ink printers.

Gloss, semi gloss, pearl, satin, silk, lustre, semi-matte, photo-matte: they are all glossy papers. Matte is actual matte, as in fine art matte, office paper matte.

Brian A
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Schewe

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Re: A few basics on matt and glossy
« Reply #2 on: February 02, 2014, 06:59:06 pm »

OUTPUT SHARPENING

When software like LR offers the choice between sharpen for matt or gloss, what will it
actually do?

Smaller radius sharpening for matt paper and more of it, and vice versa?  Or vice versa??

Sorry, top secret, tell nobody! Fact is, there are different sharpening routines (ideally) for matte and glossy media, that's why LR offers the choice. And it's more complicated than simply changing the radius...the amount and how the sharpened image is blended into the unsharpened image...since it's not user controllable, you really don't need to worry about it :~)
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Tony Hubcaps

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Re: A few basics on matt and glossy
« Reply #3 on: February 03, 2014, 06:54:00 am »

If you are talking about Lr, then it is only the sharpenning. If you are talking about in the driver's dialog, then paper choice does affect ink loading, along with thickness, platten gap, etc.
The pigment ink printers do, but not the dye ink printers.
Gloss, semi gloss, pearl, satin, silk, lustre, semi-matte, photo-matte: they are all glossy papers. Matte is actual matte, as in fine art matte, office paper matte.


I am talking about the driver dialog yes.  So in broad brush terms, how does paper choice affect things like ink loading?
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Paul2660

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Re: A few basics on matt and glossy
« Reply #4 on: February 03, 2014, 07:42:50 am »

With an Epson, can't speak to Canon, your paper choice is very important as it is tied directly to the ink loading.   On glossy PLPP 260 (premium Luster Photo Paper 260) tend to load the most.  This was evident way back when Bill Atkinson created his custom profiles for the 11880 and 9880.  He created a series of profiles for printing on canvas with Photo ink, and each called for a paper setting of PLPP260.  If you did not use this, and picked a different paper, then ink load was not the same, mainly in the blacks. 

All of Epson's profiles will tell you the recommended  paper setting and if you create a custom profile it's important to note the paper setting you are using. 

With canvas on Epson, with (7900 generation) the canvas media setting controls ink loading and the actual media, helping to maintain the correct running length of your canvas, the other media setting commonly used WCRW (water color radiant White) will lay down a lighter ink load and not control the running length.

A good test, is take a smaller print and try it with a profile calling for a certain media type, make 2 prints.  One with the correct setting, one without, and see it you don't notice a difference in output.  Sometimes, it's a very small difference, others, quite noticeably.   

Example, if you print on BC Crystalline, (glossy canvas) with the canvas setting, and then make the same print with WCRW, the print with WCRW will look washed out. 

I did not realize just how important maintaining the correct paper/media setting until I started to create custom profiles where I could a bit.  Epson most definitely allows for different amounts of ink loading based on the paper/media setting.

Paul 
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Paul Caldwell
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Tony Hubcaps

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Re: A few basics on matt and glossy
« Reply #5 on: February 04, 2014, 04:39:26 pm »

Thanks Paul, these are the kind of issues I had in mind.  It seems reasonable to suppose Canon and Epson
obey the same basic principles.

Of course experimentation is the key, but it costs money - and also I often find it helps to understand some
of the 'why' in trying things like this.

So, just to be clear, which results in the printer loading more ink, choosing gloss paper or matt??

Thanks
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Tony Hubcaps

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Re: A few basics on matt and glossy
« Reply #6 on: February 04, 2014, 04:46:43 pm »

I'm also trying to understand which black my canon 9500ii printer will be using when I choose paper
type = semi-gloss.

From what you say above Brian, it will be the Photo Black (not the matt black) ink.
Can this be confirmed??

Many thanks
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hugowolf

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Re: A few basics on matt and glossy
« Reply #7 on: February 04, 2014, 06:32:44 pm »

I'm also trying to understand which black my canon 9500ii printer will be using when I choose paper
type = semi-gloss.

From what you say above Brian, it will be the Photo Black (not the matt black) ink.
Can this be confirmed??


Yes, it will be PK.

And generally, lustre/semi-gloss/satin/pearl/silk, will put down more ink than full gloss, which can puddle ink on the surface, if you are not using the right paper/media setting.

Brian A

Brian A
« Last Edit: February 04, 2014, 06:35:46 pm by hugowolf »
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Tony Hubcaps

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Re: A few basics on matt and glossy
« Reply #8 on: February 06, 2014, 07:15:48 pm »

Thank you.  I'm getting there.
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