Problem with Breathing Color Lyve Canvas Loosening Over Time

[AndrewKelley]

I've used BC Lyve for several years, and I've generally been happy with it.  (I've made and sold several hundred stretched canvases of various sizes.)  Recently, however, I've had a big problem with the canvas loosening after I stretch it. It starts out tightly stretched. I use sturdy, well-braced stretcher bars. Humidity is low. But the canvas gets so loose that it is wavy and unsalable. I can tighten up the canvas with water and a hair dryer, or the (seemingly miraculous) tighten up spray.  However, it is frustrating to have to rework canvas that was originally tight. And it is embarrassing when customers have problems.

This problem seems to have cropped up at the end of last summer. I wonder if BC changed something about their canvas? Has anyone else had this problem?  I'd rather not switch canvas, but I'm open to suggestions for alternatives to Lyve.

Thanks,

Andrew

[Some Guy]

I've been wondering if stretching "inkjet canvas" is even a good or necessary idea? 

Framer said at some convention that it was okay for regular artist's canvas which is predominately cloth, but inkjet canvas is treated (having some plastics possibly along with the surface carrier) and may not need it and could be - or maybe should be? - mounted flat.  He flat-mounted one of my latest ones with some sort of adhesive in a heat press for 30 seconds.  So far so good, and not showing any canvas sagging or bowing  issues.  I don't know what the surface was he fixed it too either since the entire thing is framed up and sealed from the back.  It is held with some 2" black suede liner from the outside too that goes into the frame.

More odd was my second frame shop (Who uses different moldings that I wanted.) never heard of flat-mounting inkjet canvas prints and seemed to have an issue to even try it.

Some old painted artist's canvas made by my parents have a really heavy coat of gesso, paints, gels, and varnish and probably couldn't sag even if it could.  Seem almost more like a poster-board.  Might try some heavy coats of print spray to both sides to stiffen it up your inkjet prints too as a thought.  I note mine get more taut with more coats of Premier Art Eco Spray from the HVLP gun vs. unsprayed.  Might address some of the humidity issues with stretching.  When I was in their shop, they did have some stretched canvas prints with their spray on display to show it didn't crack on bending and stapling.  Didn't think to ask about the loosening-up part though.

Sidebar, if you want to use stretcher bars and keep canvas tight, I'd recommend going with Wunderbars (spring-loaded corners) to keep the canvas tight. http://www.wunderbars.com/  Haven't found a USA source yet (Fuji canvas maybe?) though as they seem to use a custom notched joint for the spring-loaded expander.  That, or get used to having to re-stretch canvas at times once it does loosen.

SG

[AndrewKelley]

Thanks. However, BC certainly advertises their canvas as stretchable, and I've made several hundred stretched canvases with no problems, and I know many others have too.

I suspect that they changed something about the canvas that causes it to stretch over time. 

[bill t.]

Have you changed stretcher bars or are you making bigger pieces?  As canvases get bigger relative to the cross section of the bars, bowing will start to create problems.  Bracing bars are the usual solution.  Put a straightedge along the sides of your pieces, see if there's more than just a tiny amount of bowing in the center.

Have thousands of mounted canvases out in the field, zero problems.  Use Gatorfoam and Miracle Muck.  Search those terms on this forum.

Edit.  And canvases do sometimes vary a lot from batch to batch, primarily in the quality and type of substrate.  BC seems to using very good quality control however.  The weave they use is somewhat polarized, with a more pronounced channel-like texture in one direction than the other.  The heaviest "stretch" should be along the axis that is 90 degrees to the channels.  You can't stretch along the axis of the channels nearly as much.  Always stretch the axis that is 90 degrees to channels first.  If you try to apply the main stretch in the same direction as the channels, then that may cause early sagging.

[dandeliondigital]

Hi,
I can tell you that some BC Lyve canvas that I bought about 4 years ago works just fine, then and now.

I'm curious. What is the size of the stretched canvas that has the sag issue?

I'd call Breathing Color directly and ask them what's up. Their customer service has always tried to please.

So long for now, TOM

[AndrewKelley]

Thanks to Bill and TOM. I'll check the bars to see if they are bowed.  However, I tried using a bracer bar, which had no effect. The most heavily affected size is roughly 20x30. I have seen some loosening even at smaller sizes (e.g. 12x18).

I haven't changed the size of bars that I use, however I did try a new bar "profile".  The edges on the new profile are slightly less rounded and more pointy than the old one.  I wonder if I'm getting a less-tight initial stretch on the new bars (pointy corners = harder to pull loose canvas over?) I'll have to see if I have some old bar stock left to try an a/b comparison.

Re: gatorboard and miracle muck, I've seen those threads and recently ordered a gallon of muck. Will give that a try shortly.

Re: calling BC: I have an e-mail in to them. We'll see. In my experience, their support has been a touch hit and miss. Hopefully a hit this time.

Andrew

[jferrari]

Andrew, what was the relative humidity when you stretched the prints? And what is the RH now? I'm having exactly the same issue as you which I can easily point my finger at the RH. It was mid sixties when I stretched them and now is in the high teens. I'm using strainer frames made from 1" stock. That's a total of 2 inches of wood which could shrink as much as an eighth of an inch seasonally even though it was kiln-dried stock to begin with. Increasing the RH should return them to original. I'll bet you'll notice that prints displayed in a controlled environment do not exhibit the loosening or wrinkling.

[dgberg]

A seasonal thing every year here in the northeast.
Nothing you really can do unless you have keyed stretchers.
Right now I have 60 gallery wraps in my studio gallery and just about all are like a limp rag.
This past summer when the humidity was high they were as tight as a drum..
I used to mess around with the tighten up product every winter but now I just let them be.
Nothing wrong with your canvas.

[AndrewKelley]

I think that Dan and Jferrari figured this one out. I live in Denver, where the relative humidity is currently in the single digits. But I made all of the canvases during the summer, with much higher RH. Thanks to all.