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Author Topic: NEC P242W vs. PA272W  (Read 18558 times)

joshnl

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NEC P242W vs. PA272W
« on: January 29, 2014, 05:12:10 pm »

Hi all,

I'm long overdue to upgrade my 7- or 8-year old bottom of the barrel LCD monitor (sRGB), and was hoping to get some guidance from some of the kind folks on this forum. After having done LOTS of research over the last while, I think I've narrowed the process down to a few key questions.

But first, just to give you an idea of my situation, I'm an avid serious amateur nature photographer, and am wanting to start producing fine art prints of my work (possibly for sale). I don't print at home, but the idea is that I will use high-end print shops capable of wide-gamut (beyond sRGB) printing - and I may start printing at home eventually. When I process my pictures, I do so with a proper colour management workflow, editing in 16-bit Adobe RGB 1998, and then converting to 8-bit sRGB for web viewing.

The deal is, I now want to (1) have better image quality with a broader gamut of colours when looking at my finished pictures on my own computer (basically, to improve my own viewing experience when looking at images on screen) and (2) be able to have a better idea of what my photos will look like when printed on wider gamut printers.

Through all my research, I think I've narrowed down my choices to the NEC P242W and NEC PA272W monitors. The main differences between these monitors, as I understand them, are (1) sRGB vs. wide gamut, (2) 24" vs. 27", and (3) 1920 x 1200 vs. 2560 x 1440. But I could really use some help answering the key questions that I think will help me decide between the two:

1. How well does the sRGB emulation mode work on the PA272W? Would an image viewed in that mode look about the same as it would on the P242W? I ask this since, while I do want the ability to know what I'm getting with wide gamut printing, the fact of the matter is that most of what I do ends up on the web.

2. Will the higher resolution of the PA272W require significantly more computer resources? My computer is a decent one (i7 950, 12GB RAM, ATI HD6870 video card), but even with my current 1680 x 1050 monitor, Lightroom still struggles a bit sometimes. I'm therefore worried that the substantially higher resolution of the PA272W will make using LR too much of a pain.

3. When editing pictures in LR and PS, will having a 27" screen provide much more practical real estate over a 24" screen? Keep in mind that I could use my old monitor as a second display to put toolbars and so forth on - however, again, I'm worried that having to drive two displays might slow down LR significantly (in the past, when I had a 1600 x 1200 CRT as a secondary display, using both monitors would slow down LR noticeably).

This is where my internet searching has come to a dead end, I'm afraid, so I would hugely appreciate some help with these questions.

Thanks!
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digitaldog

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Re: NEC P242W vs. PA272W
« Reply #1 on: January 29, 2014, 06:00:50 pm »

Long story short, get the PA272W. The sRGB simulation works fine and you can calibrate to that aim as well. The 27" is the perfect size IMHO (30" is a bit too big, 24" too small). Should be no differences in system resources, if you can drive two displays, you'll be able to drive the 27" just fine.
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joshnl

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Re: NEC P242W vs. PA272W
« Reply #2 on: January 29, 2014, 06:18:52 pm »

Long story short, get the PA272W. The sRGB simulation works fine and you can calibrate to that aim as well. The 27" is the perfect size IMHO (30" is a bit too big, 24" too small). Should be no differences in system resources, if you can drive two displays, you'll be able to drive the 27" just fine.

LOL! Awesome! Brief, and to the point - just how I like it!

Thanks, digitaldog. Really appreciate your input.

When you say the sRGB emulation mode works fine, does is really match a good sRGB monitor? I've heard from some people that they've had major problems with wide gamut monitors in sRGB emulation mode, in terms of getting the image they see on their screen to match what's seen on other peoples' sRGB screens. Was this just a problem with older wide gamut monitors, and not with newer ones such as the PA272W?
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digitaldog

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Re: NEC P242W vs. PA272W
« Reply #3 on: January 29, 2014, 06:26:26 pm »

When you say the sRGB emulation mode works fine, does is really match a good sRGB monitor? I've heard from some people that they've had major problems with wide gamut monitors in sRGB emulation mode, in terms of getting the image they see on their screen to match what's seen on other peoples' sRGB screens.
They are confused <g>.
Getting two non wide gamut displays to match is work, one has to alter calibrations for each to produce that match. So suggesting that they can't get the two to match and this is due to the emulation is silly. Further, the only display that can actually produce sRGB is a cira 1994 CRT display with P22 phosphors.
IF you wanted two displays to match visually in sRGB or otherwise, the way to do so is get two NEC's (or similar reference display systems), calibrate using the same instrument and calibration settings. Then set them side by side. You think the people who say the sRGB emulation on an NEC did this? Perhaps. Did they alter the calibration settings of two vastly different displays to attempt a visual match? Probably not.
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joshnl

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Re: NEC P242W vs. PA272W
« Reply #4 on: January 29, 2014, 06:33:51 pm »

They are confused <g>.
Getting two non wide gamut displays to match is work, one has to alter calibrations for each to produce that match. So suggesting that they can't get the two to match and this is due to the emulation is silly. Further, the only display that can actually produce sRGB is a cira 1994 CRT display with P22 phosphors.
IF you wanted two displays to match visually in sRGB or otherwise, the way to do so is get two NEC's (or similar reference display systems), calibrate using the same instrument and calibration settings. Then set them side by side. You think the people who say the sRGB emulation on an NEC did this? Perhaps. Did they alter the calibration settings of two vastly different displays to attempt a visual match? Probably not.

Hey digitaldog, Sorry, I think I may not have been clear in my last post. The problem I've heard of is when someone with a wide gamut display tries to edit a picture for the web, for instance. For example, they put their wide gamut display in sRGB emulation mode, edit the picture as they see fit, and upload it to Flickr or whatever. Then, when they look at the picture on Flickr on an entirely different computer - that has a normal (but calibrated) sRGB monitor - the picture looks significantly different than what they saw on their own wide gamut monitor in sRGB emulation mode (particularly with respect to the colours of the image). Do you know anything about this?
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digitaldog

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Re: NEC P242W vs. PA272W
« Reply #5 on: January 29, 2014, 06:39:57 pm »

The problem I've heard of is when someone with a wide gamut display tries to edit a picture for the web, for instance. For example, they put their wide gamut display in sRGB emulation mode, edit the picture as they see fit, and upload it to Flickr or whatever. Then, when they look at the picture on Flickr on an entirely different computer - that has a normal (but calibrated) sRGB monitor - the picture looks significantly different than what they saw on their own wide gamut monitor in sRGB emulation mode (particularly with respect to the colours of the image). Do you know anything about this?
IF the display is in sRGB behavior AND they use a color managed browser, all is fine. If they use the display in it's native wide gamut, and if the browser or other software isn't ICC aware, yes, everything looks incorrect and somewhat ugly.
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joshnl

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Re: NEC P242W vs. PA272W
« Reply #6 on: January 29, 2014, 06:51:43 pm »

IF the display is in sRGB behavior AND they use a color managed browser, all is fine. If they use the display in it's native wide gamut, and if the browser or other software isn't ICC aware, yes, everything looks incorrect and somewhat ugly.

But what if the photo is edited in the sRGB colour space, on a wide gamut monitor set in sRGB emulation mode? In theory, this should be the same as editing the picture in the sRGB colour space on an sRGB monitor. But some people say that in reality it is not the same, presumably since the sRGB emulation mode isn't quite the same as a bona fide sRGB monitor. So what ends up happening is, even with colour managed browsers, the photo looks significantly different on most other peoples' displays (which are generally sRGB), whereas if the photo were edited on a bona fide sRGB monitor to begin with, it would look more or less the same on other peoples' displays.

So basically, does calibrated sRGB emulation mode on the PA272W very closely match what one would see on a bona fide calibrated sRGB monitor?
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digitaldog

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Re: NEC P242W vs. PA272W
« Reply #7 on: January 29, 2014, 06:54:53 pm »

But what if the photo is edited in the sRGB colour space, on a wide gamut monitor set in sRGB emulation mode?
Exactly what happens in Photoshop or Lightroom or any other ICC aware application. Now outside an ICC aware browser or app, all bets are off.
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joshnl

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Re: NEC P242W vs. PA272W
« Reply #8 on: January 29, 2014, 07:09:02 pm »

Exactly what happens in Photoshop or Lightroom or any other ICC aware application. Now outside an ICC aware browser or app, all bets are off.

Sorry, digitaldog, maybe I'm being thick, but I still don't understand how well the sRGB emulation mode on the PA272W works.

On my current setup (sRGB monitor), if I edit a picture in Photoshop (with proper colour management workflow), and then convert to sRGB upon export, the picture will look more or less the same on my monitor (the "editing" monitor) as it will on another computer using even an uncalibrated monitor (the "viewing" monitor) and a non colour-managed browser (which, as I understand it, basically defaults everything to sRGB). I understand that there will be some differences, especially if the other monitor is uncalibrated; but overall, the pictures look very similar to me (I do this all the time between my home and work computers).

But what I've heard from some other people is that when doing the exact same thing as above, but using a wide gamut monitor in sRGB emulation mode as the "editing" monitor (instead of an actual sRGB monitor), the pictures will often look very different on the "viewing" monitor, and that this leads to lots of frustration in terms of tweaking the picture to get things to look good on the viewing monitor.

Another way to put this is that when browsing through other peoples' pictures on Flickr or whatever using a non colour-managed browser, will the pictures still look good (more or less as their creator intended them to) on a PA272W in sRGB emulation mode?

Sorry I'm having so much trouble explaining myself clearly, but thanks for bearing with me!
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digitaldog

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Re: NEC P242W vs. PA272W
« Reply #9 on: January 29, 2014, 07:21:40 pm »

Sorry, digitaldog, maybe I'm being thick, but I still don't understand how well the sRGB emulation mode on the PA272W works.
It limits the wider gamut behavior, it attempts to mimic an sRGB-like (that's key) display.

Quote
On my current setup (sRGB monitor), if I edit a picture in Photoshop (with proper colour management workflow), and then convert to sRGB upon export, the picture will look more or less the same on my monitor (the "editing" monitor) as it will on another computer using even an uncalibrated monitor (the "viewing" monitor) and a non colour-managed browser (which, as I understand it, basically defaults everything to sRGB). I understand that there will be some differences, especially if the other monitor is uncalibrated; but overall, the pictures look very similar to me (I do this all the time between my home and work computers).

That's true in ICC aware applications. It's not true outside them. There's nothing different here. In fact, if you use ICC aware app's, the wide gamut display previews data fine as one would expect. The sRGB emulation is necessary for non ICC aware app's that treat data as if it were something close to sRGB.
Quote
But what I've heard from some other people is that when doing the exact same thing as above, but using a wide gamut monitor in sRGB emulation mode as the "editing" monitor (instead of an actual sRGB monitor), the pictures will often look very different on the "viewing" monitor, and that this leads to lots of frustration in terms of tweaking the picture to get things to look good on the viewing monitor.
IF the browser is ICC aware and treating the data correctly, it works just like Photoshop.
Quote
Another way to put this is that when browsing through other peoples' pictures on Flickr or whatever using a non colour-managed browser, will the pictures still look good (more or less as their creator intended them to) on a PA272W in sRGB emulation mode?
They might, they might not. Outside of ICC aware app's, all bets are off. Don't view color images you hope to see correctly in non ICC aware applications. Saving as sRGB in no way ensures the image will look like anyone's elses display outside of ICC aware app's. Yes, they should look better than looking at this data in a non ICC aware application on a wide gamut display.
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joshnl

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Re: NEC P242W vs. PA272W
« Reply #10 on: January 29, 2014, 07:26:30 pm »

Okay, cool. I'm learning :)

I guess the core of what I'm asking is, just how well does the PA272W sRGB emulation mode mimic a normal sRGB monitor?
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digitaldog

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Re: NEC P242W vs. PA272W
« Reply #11 on: January 29, 2014, 07:32:39 pm »

I guess the core of what I'm asking is, just how well does the PA272W sRGB emulation mode mimic a normal sRGB monitor?
There's no such thing (as a normal sRGB) display. That's why we calibrate them.
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joshnl

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Re: NEC P242W vs. PA272W
« Reply #12 on: January 29, 2014, 07:35:59 pm »

There's no such thing (as a normal sRGB) display. That's why we calibrate them.

Okay, how well does a well-calibrated PA272W in sRGB emulation mode mimic a well-calibrated sRGB monitor of similar quality (i.e. not some cheapo monitor)?

:)
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digitaldog

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Re: NEC P242W vs. PA272W
« Reply #13 on: January 29, 2014, 07:39:04 pm »

Okay, how well does a well-calibrated PA272W in sRGB emulation mode mimic a well-calibrated sRGB monitor of similar quality (i.e. not some cheapo monitor)?
The mode works. I have no idea how a great unit like this compares to a cheapo display, they probably don't match. But in sRGB mode, viewing images outside of ICC aware app's looks 'better' than viewing in the native wide gamut mode. Both are 'wrong'. Because it's a non ICC aware process.
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joshnl

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Re: NEC P242W vs. PA272W
« Reply #14 on: January 29, 2014, 07:44:37 pm »

The mode works. I have no idea how a great unit like this compares to a cheapo display, they probably don't match. But in sRGB mode, viewing images outside of ICC aware app's looks 'better' than viewing in the native wide gamut mode. Both are 'wrong'. Because it's a non ICC aware process.

Okay, last question for now :)

Could you hazard a guess at how similar a PA272W in sRGB emulation mode would look to a P242W, both in colour-managed and non colour-managed apps?
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digitaldog

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Re: NEC P242W vs. PA272W
« Reply #15 on: January 29, 2014, 07:46:48 pm »

Could you hazard a guess at how similar a PA272W in sRGB emulation mode would look to a P242W, both in colour-managed and non colour-managed apps?
Dont' know. I'd have to have both side by side and set them up both ways with proper calibration.
You want to buy a display which limits the colors you can use and output? Because an sRGB Gamut display is going to limit more of what you can't see that you can capture and output.
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joshnl

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Re: NEC P242W vs. PA272W
« Reply #16 on: January 29, 2014, 07:53:54 pm »

You want to buy a display which limits the colors you can use and output? Because an sRGB Gamut display is going to limit more of what you can't see that you can capture and output.

Ya, I'm totally aware of that. But the whole reason I'm interested in sRGB emulation mode and how well it works is, in the case where I'm outputting to the web (which is most of the time), I want to know exactly what my pictures will look like on most peoples' (sRGB) monitors (as best I can, of course). The only way to do this is to limit what I'm seeing to sRGB (for output only; not for the majority of the editing and printing, where I want the ability to see into the aRGB gamut).
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digitaldog

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Re: NEC P242W vs. PA272W
« Reply #17 on: January 29, 2014, 07:55:15 pm »

But the whole reason I'm interested in sRGB emulation mode and how well it works is, in the case where I'm outputting to the web (which is most of the time), I want to know exactly what my pictures will look like on most peoples' (sRGB) monitors (as best I can, of course).
You can't, that's impossible short of traveling to their location and actually looking at that display.
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joshnl

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Re: NEC P242W vs. PA272W
« Reply #18 on: January 29, 2014, 07:56:30 pm »

You can't, that's impossible short of traveling to their location and actually looking at that display.


Like I said, as best I can.

Anyways, thanks so much for all your help, digitaldog. I truly appreciate it!
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Czornyj

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Re: NEC P242W vs. PA272W
« Reply #19 on: January 30, 2014, 01:16:39 am »

Okay, last question for now :)

Could you hazard a guess at how similar a PA272W in sRGB emulation mode would look to a P242W, both in colour-managed and non colour-managed apps?

The native colour space of P242W also exceeds sRGB to some degree, so a PA242/PA272W in sRGB emulation would look as P242W in sRGB emulation in non colour-managed apps.

All these displays use precise 14(16)bit 3DLUT to emulate sRGB, so it's just as good as it gets, and you can quickly switch it using Multiprofiler's keyboard shortcut (+ it manages display profiles automatically).
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