Preparing images for web - alright, maybe not

[John V.]

So, I understand how browsers handle color management (I'm confident). Everything I have prepared for web is srgb. Flipping through some of my monitor presets ( "gaming, theater, scenery, etc")... quite a difference, and not in a good way, which is understandable. Is there a general rule of thumb to makes these differences more subtle? It looks like easing off on the saturation helps (for my purposes) well enough (I guess), but I'm curious to know what anyone else may have to say...

[digitaldog]

So, I understand how browsers handle color management (I'm confident). Everything I have prepared for web is srgb. Flipping through some of my monitor presets ( "gaming, theater, scenery, etc")... quite a difference, and not in a good way, which is understandable. Is there a general rule of thumb to makes these differences more subtle? It looks like easing off on the saturation helps (for my purposes) well enough (I guess), but I'm curious to know what anyone else may have to say...

Just because you save as sRGB doesn't ensure a match from anyone else viewing the sRGB data even if they use a calibrated display and an ICC aware browser. It should be vastly closer than using a non ICC aware browser. Vastly closer than sending something other than sRGB to non color managed browsers. But how one calibrates the display is critical for two or more systems to match. You've seen that altering the presets alter the color appearance. The same is true for calibration. If you set your display for CCT 5500K, 90cd/m2 and I set mine which is a different make and model (and wide gamut) to D65, 150cd/m2 and we looked at the two side by side, they would look different with the same sRGB data even viewed in a color managed browser. You buy the same SpectraView II display I use, set the same calibration targets and use the same instrument, side by side, the two will look identical. That's why NEC and Eizo, and formally Sony, Radius and Barco produce reference display systems.

[John V.]

Makes sense.

>>But how one calibrates the display is critical for two or more systems to match.

And I know I can't do anything about that.

I probably should have mentioned that this is just for Amazon/my website. Viewed mostly by, well, amazon users, and the website gets misc traffic including interior designers, others we advertise to, and whoever else.

This is a collection of artwork that I reproduce, so I'd like things to be semi-uniform.. I'm not looking for perfection here, just something more pleasing than what I was getting flipping through the different presets. I've also noticed the website looks pretty bad when viewing from a few different laptops. Very saturated. Perhaps theres nothing I can do about this.

Something also just occurred to me...

If I have a monitor profile loaded up, and I switch through my monitors different presets, is it displaying colors differently than if I were to have no monitor profile loaded and I switch through the presets..?

Eaxmple:

While viewing an image...

Is "monitor_profile.icc + "theater mode preset on the monitor"

different than

no monitor profile loaded + "theater mode preset on the monitor"

[digitaldog]

Eaxmple:

While viewing an image...

Is "monitor_profile.icc + "theater mode preset on the monitor"

different than

no monitor profile loaded + "theater mode preset on the monitor"

There is calibration, the process of altering the display and there is profiling which reflects that condition. If you alter the display condition, the current profile isn't reflecting that condition which isn't good. In color managed applications, there is always some display profile in the loop. IOW, there isn't a no monitor profile loaded condition.

[John V.]

Right, so should have said:

custom_monitor.icc + "theater mode preset on the monitor"

vs

default_monitor.icc + "theater mode preset on the monitor"

[digitaldog]

Right, so should have said:
custom_monitor.icc + "theater mode preset on the monitor"
vs
default_monitor.icc + "theater mode preset on the monitor"

The only way this works properly is custom_monitor.icc + "theater mode preset on the monitor" or custom_monitor.icc + "gaming mode preset on the monitor". Two different settings (gaming vs. theater), two different profiles that reflect each setting. Both will produce visually different results but both will work within a color managed workflow because you have that display profile.
This is similar to calibrating to differing targets and building two profiles. In fact, on some display systems like NEC SpectraView, that's a feature! You can calibrate for a white point and contrast ratio for paper A, a different calibration for paper B and switch on the fly between the two. But in your case, the question becomes, what calibration on your device is 'better'?

[John V.]

I might have to play with this. I just followed the ColorMunki instructions and reset the monitor to default settings before profiling.

[D Fosse]

Your question has little to do with preparing images for the web (for which the answer is simply "convert to sRGB and embed the profile. Done").

So I was a little confused by the thread title. What you're asking is really "what calibration targets should I use for web". For print, the answer generally is what produces a good match from screen to print, a white point that matches paper white viewed under certain conditions and so on. The ideal is "what you see is what you get".

For web I actually think it's less critical. What you see is what you see, period. My primary concern has always been print, so I'm curious to hear what others have to say.

[John V.]

It went off topic, and I might not have been clear to begin with. I'll write out something here in a bit.

[John V.]

>>Your question has little to do with preparing images for the web (for which the answer is simply "convert to sRGB and embed the profile. Done").

Actually, I suppose that pretty much sums it up for me. And is really the only thing I should do.

My concern was...

My display has a handful of different presets (gaming, theater,etc) that change (what mostly looks like) saturation/contrast.

And I didn't like what I saw while viewing my website and flipping through these presets.

So I was just looking for a trick that might provide a happy medium, so people who have these types of presets enabled don't view my images as a saturated nightmare. But I'm guessing that's jsut the way it is.

[D Fosse]

Don't get me wrong, it's an interesting question. Just the wrong title.

In principle, you can build a profile based on any monitor preset. As long as the profile accurately describes the response with that preset, it's valid. But you can't change the preset without also changing to the corresponding profile. You must have a valid profile. Andrew covered all that.

What all these presets do I honestly don't know. I suspect they artificially blow up saturation and contrast to produce a more "appealing" image (whoever that might appeal to). In general the monitor should be as close to native response as possible, that's where it will behave at its best. Then calibrate, and finally the calibrator builds the profile which describes the monitor in that particular state.

[John V.]

>>But you can't change the preset without also changing to the corresponding profile.

Yeah that question came into play later, and wasn't really an original concern. Jsut for my understanding.
...
 The question wasn't about how to properly PROFILE a display under a certain condition (preset), but if the monitor would display color differently if I were toggling my custom display profile on and off, while using the "game mode" (for example) preset as a constant, and obviously, yes, yes it does. I was just looking at it the wrong way. I thought maybe the preset would "override" is display profile somehow for some odd reason.

So anyway, now I'm wondering if I gain anything (for my purposes) by creating a display profile using one of the presets other than the recommended "standard" preset.

[digitaldog]

So anyway, now I'm wondering if I gain anything (for my purposes) by creating a display profile using one of the presets other than the recommended "standard" preset.

Doubtful.

[Wayne Fox]

There is calibration, the process of altering the display and there is profiling which reflects that condition. If you alter the display condition, the current profile isn't reflecting that condition which isn't good. In color managed applications, there is always some display profile in the loop. IOW, there isn't a no monitor profile loaded condition.

Best description of this concept I've seen.