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Author Topic: Another 4900 horror story  (Read 55558 times)

Scott Martin

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Re: Another 4900 horror story
« Reply #40 on: January 30, 2014, 11:41:55 am »

Of course they could always rescue their reputations on this matter by developing the algorithm and offering users an up-dated driver with that included. :-) :-)

Yep! Should have happened a long time ago but it's never too late.
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Scott Martin
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Some Guy

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Re: Another 4900 horror story
« Reply #41 on: January 30, 2014, 01:00:40 pm »

Wonder if some of the RIP outfits like Ergosoft StudioPrint or similar haven't thought of incorporating a "Print a nozzle check page timer" into their software?  Anyone with connections to them?

Fwiw, I have a 3880 and it plugs at times so I need to run it once a week (I don't know who said they don't plug as they do!  Maybe less so.).  I even have one of the Epson small Charm portables for field use using dye ink and it will plug solid within two weeks.  When it plugs, it takes about 3-5 power cleans and then the ink cartridge is done.

"Use it, or lose it" seems to be the printer's mantra.

SG
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shadowblade

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Re: Another 4900 horror story
« Reply #42 on: January 30, 2014, 01:28:48 pm »

Wonder if some of the RIP outfits like Ergosoft StudioPrint or similar haven't thought of incorporating a "Print a nozzle check page timer" into their software?  Anyone with connections to them?

That would require the computer (and RIP) to be running all the time - including when you're away for weeks or months on end. And, if there happened to be a power failure or surge while you are away, the computer would restart and the software-driven maintenance would cease.

Quote
Fwiw, I have a 3880 and it plugs at times so I need to run it once a week (I don't know who said they don't plug as they do!  Maybe less so.).  I even have one of the Epson small Charm portables for field use using dye ink and it will plug solid within two weeks.  When it plugs, it takes about 3-5 power cleans and then the ink cartridge is done.

"Use it, or lose it" seems to be the printer's mantra.

SG


Roland printers (which also use Epson heads) have an automatic self-cleaning feature which keeps the print heads working as long as the printer is left on.
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Roger_Breton

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Re: Another 4900 horror story
« Reply #43 on: January 30, 2014, 02:57:15 pm »

UPDATE.

What a saga. The printer still refuses to print anything. I spoke to Epson tech support. They were adamant that they "don't support customers at the hardware level". Yet, he was able to answer a few questions which did not lead to any solution. I got better luck speaking the the local Fuji guy that fixes these machines. Until he sees the printer physically, he can only speculate. I took the head apart one more time just to make sure that it wasn't blocked mechanically, it is still let cleaning fluid pass through. All may not be lost. Still, the printer does not produce any image, the nozzle check pattern produces a clean and immaculate sheet -- impressive. I'm still not sure that the head is NOT completely blocked but I have now established that cleaning does not pass any fluid through the head. I tried putting in a brand new ink maintenance tank that I previously weighed at 248g. I figure, if ink actually travels through the head, it is going to show up in the ink maintenance tank. But, there was no difference before and after cleaning, the tank still weighed 248g. Which leaves a few possibilities open. Either ink is blocked in the Ink Selector Assembly (a definite possibility) or in the tubes (yet, none of them are showing bubles and are all full). Or, it is possible that the pump, on the cap assembly fails to create the required vaccum to pass ink through the head. I wish there was a simple diagnostic to check the pump? Or, as the Fuji tech suggested, it is possible that the mainboard is not sending signals to the system to fire ink? This machine is really complex, and without any kind of "model" of how it operates, it's hard to figure.

I was hoping that, perhaps, through an Ink Flush and initial ink charge, I would get ink flowing again in the head and salvage my printer but now that I know for sure, that no ink is pulled in the cap assembly, forget doing an Ink Flush. It won't do anything.

Just spoke to my friend at Fuji and he's not convinced that the head is still operational. According to the symptoms I describe, it's possible that the pump cap assembly would need to be changed. But it's possible the problem is the head. I am thinking that, perhaps, cleaning the head differently? With a solution like PiezoFlush? Worth trying. At this stage, the printer is getting closer to the door by the day... Will make sure to buy the Extended Warranty Program *if* I decide to give more of my hard-earned money to Mr. Epson again. I may go for the 3880, which is less exensive, but I so appreciate the convenience of roll fed.
« Last Edit: January 30, 2014, 03:33:28 pm by Roger_Breton »
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AFairley

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Re: Another 4900 horror story
« Reply #44 on: January 30, 2014, 03:53:37 pm »

In response to some of the previous posts, except for memory space limitiations, there is no reason the firmware could not contain a feature to intermittently print a test pattern, it could put the machine in and out of sleep mode to do so.  I wouldn't hold my breath for such a feature though....
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BrianWJH

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Re: Another 4900 horror story
« Reply #45 on: January 30, 2014, 04:15:23 pm »

UPDATE.
 I took the head apart one more time just to make sure that it wasn't blocked mechanically, it is still let cleaning fluid pass through. All may not be lost. Still, the printer does not produce any image, the nozzle check pattern produces a clean and immaculate sheet -- impressive. I'm still not sure that the head is NOT completely blocked but I have now established that cleaning does not pass any fluid through the head.


Roger you say that the head is letting cleaning fluid through, how are you testing this, what are you seeing that tells you fluid is passing through?

Quote
Which leaves a few possibilities open. Either ink is blocked in the Ink Selector Assembly (a definite possibility) or in the tubes (yet, none of them are showing bubles and are all full).


Provided you have correctly seated the printhead into the damper assembly the seal should be ok.

It would be unlikely that all dampers would be blocked, so I'd rule that out, individual dampers could have blockages but some channels should be passing ink when primed.

Regarding the ink lines, yes it's possible to have air bubbles trapped in them and also for ink to coagulate or clump through non-usage, you can usually see clumped ink or air bubbles in the ink lines using a torch


Quote
Or, it is possible that the pump, on the cap assembly fails to create the required vaccum to pass ink through the head.I was hoping that, perhaps, through an Ink Flush and initial ink charge, I would get ink flowing again in the head and salvage my printer but now that I know for sure, that no ink is pulled in the cap assembly, forget doing an Ink Flush. It won't do anything.


The ink system pressurizes the ink carts which forces ink through the ink lines to the damper assembly and finally into the printhead. Unless you have disassembled any of the air pressurization system then for the time being I'd rule that out.

Quote

I am thinking that, perhaps, cleaning the head differently? With a solution like PiezoFlush? Worth trying.


First I would try good quality de-ionized or distilled water and see if it passes through the printhead.

Brian.
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Farmer

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Re: Another 4900 horror story
« Reply #46 on: January 30, 2014, 04:27:36 pm »

Alan makes a valuable insight - firmware memory restrictions.

That said, it's certainly possible given that periodical cleaning is run on solvent machines (the user can vary or switch off).  However, whilst some people find that periodical nozzle checks help, and there's no doubt that all inkjet printers prefer to print, I would stress something I saw recently and have taken to really liking "the plural of anecdote is not data".  Not meant to be snarky in saying that, by the way.  Manufacturers need to cater to the majority first, then the rest, and the based on cost/return - there's also the cost of not doing something, which can be made "higher" by providing more feedback to them...

Sometimes things get lost in a statistical morass and some effort is needed to bring it to light.  Sometimes it's a vision of the future which overlooks the present, too.  Usually, though, it's just less of an issue at the top level than it is to the individual, which doesn't make it any less painful for the individual nor is it unreasonable for companies to be looking at the big picture.  So, yeah, more feedback!
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Phil Brown

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Re: Another 4900 horror story
« Reply #47 on: January 30, 2014, 06:03:15 pm »

I have a sparingly used 4900 that has been very reliable.  A few dropped nozzles when not used for a few weeks, but otherwise perfect with some notable exceptions: I read a thread here a few months ago about a troublesome 4900.  So I checked mine and C channel was completely blocked!  A few cleanings cleared the blockage.  Yesterday, I started reading this post, which of course prompted me to do a nozzle check - PK half blocked.  I've tried two cleanings and three prints and still see blockage in the PK with a nozzle check, but the prints show no signs of nozzle blockage.  Anyone had a similar experience?  I'll try a gray scale later to see if I can see the effect of the blocked nozzles, but I've learned two things: a good print is possible even with some dropped nozzles and to stop reading 4900 problem threads :)

Tom
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jrsforums

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Re: Another 4900 horror story
« Reply #48 on: January 30, 2014, 06:24:06 pm »

In response to some of the previous posts, except for memory space limitiations, there is no reason the firmware could not contain a feature to intermittently print a test pattern, it could put the machine in and out of sleep mode to do so.  I wouldn't hold my breath for such a feature though....

I would not hold my breath either....which is why I decided to try the HHC.

For those with a PC, it is all of $40.

For Macs, I assume Andrew will report if HHC could run under emulation.  At worst, a $200-300 cheap laptop/net book will probably work just fine.....cost quickly saved in ink, I am sure.

John
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John

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Re: Another 4900 horror story
« Reply #49 on: January 30, 2014, 06:27:36 pm »

For Macs, I assume Andrew will report if HHC could run under emulation. 
I have a windows laptop I could use like you guys. Having it run just to do this isn't high on my list.

 I'm wondering about just having something I own do it under Mac OS X which is running every day anyway. Quickeys, Hazel, Automator. First I need this beast serviced.
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Roger_Breton

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Re: Another 4900 horror story
« Reply #50 on: January 30, 2014, 09:38:24 pm »

Brian,

you asked "Roger you say that the head is letting cleaning fluid through, how are you testing this, what are you seeing that tells you fluid is passing through?"

I directly inkjet fluid into the intakes of the head, one by one, using a syringe and a transparent 2" tube attached to the end of the syringe.
So I make sure that the tube covers the intake completely and I slowly inject, watching the liquid coming through at the other end of the head.
It's plain to see this.

You also suggested "First I would try good quality de-ionized or distilled water and see if it passes through the printhead."
Which is what i did tonight. My wife brought some distilled water and I used it on the head the same way I did yesterday with Windex.
Sadly, no improvement.

What frustrates me most is not being able to diagnose the print head once and for all.
Opinions are divided. Some swear that injecting anyting into the head directly with a syringe is the kiss of death while others, who claim to have seated on Epson tech training, explain that there is no harm to be had to do this.

So, at this stage, the only way I could ever know whether the problem stemps from the head would be to have another one, spare, to throw in, to compare.
But for the price they go at, might as well get a whole new printer. Which is crazy.
I could conceivably bring the printer to an authorized service center, which would not be so crazy.
But, at $200 an hour, plus the time to get there, plus my initial cartridges are almost empty... You get the picture.
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Roger_Breton

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Re: Another 4900 horror story
« Reply #51 on: January 30, 2014, 10:08:15 pm »

I have been reading the other posts in the forum and I deemed important to mention that the low humidity level in my office might have played an important factor in my head clogging ordeal. I'm looking at the reading on my meter right now in my office, on Jan 30 2014, and I get 20 degrees Celcius and 24% relative humidity. 24% is really way too low? I've really been negligent  :-[. Over at Transcontinental Printing where I work on and off, I make sure the humidity level never goes below 40%. They have a 9900 and head clogs are a fact of life, plus other issues. Relative humidity is surpremely important.
I'm considering going forward with either another 4900 or a 3880 (or a Canon? heck! I was even looking at Xerox at a point...), extended warranties for the two additional years *but* the most important purchase will be that of a humidifier. Egg on my face...
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Mike Guilbault

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Re: Another 4900 horror story
« Reply #52 on: January 30, 2014, 10:12:00 pm »

What is the humidity in your print room?  

I've found this to be a HUGE factor.  I was having problems with my 4900 for three months - still printed fine, mostly, but I couldn't get rid of three partial nozzle clogs in the 3 months. I was also having problems with the yellow channel in my 9900.  Once I got a decent sized humidifier I've not had a single drop out in three weeks.  This in central Ontario where the humidity was down to 26% before the humidifier.  I haven't used either machine for about 12 days. Fired up yesterday and perfect nozzle checks on both of them and the prints were perfect too.

I really think keeping the humidity above 40% (40-60% recommended by Epson) is the key.  Mine is kept between 45 and 50 most days - sometimes drops to 38-40 by the end of the weekend when I'm not in to fill the humidifier.   This is the one I purchased: http://www.sears.ca/product/kenmore-md-454-litre-digital-humidifier/642-000017871-758_3_29982OC
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Mike Guilbault

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Re: Another 4900 horror story
« Reply #53 on: January 30, 2014, 10:31:19 pm »


I directly inkjet fluid into the intakes of the head, one by one, using a syringe and a transparent 2" tube attached to the end of the syringe.
So I make sure that the tube covers the intake completely and I slowly inject, watching the liquid coming through at the other end of the head.
It's plain to see this.


Ok just steady pressure, that's good.

Quote
You also suggested "First I would try good quality de-ionized or distilled water and see if it passes through the printhead."
Which is what i did tonight. My wife brought some distilled water and I used it on the head the same way I did yesterday with Windex.

The water should form a fine stream of tiny water jets indicating that the nozzles or at least most of them are not totally blocked.

Quote
What frustrates me most is not being able to diagnose the print head once and for all.
Opinions are divided. Some swear that injecting anyting into the head directly with a syringe is the kiss of death while others, who claim to have seated on Epson tech training, explain that there is no harm to be had to do this.


Roger, check this link for a video of the process and although it's for an Epson 4880 the head cleaning principles are the same.

If after performing the process there is still no ink being expelled from the printhead then it's time to try an "Init Fill' or initial fill from the service menu (see the service manual you downloaded), this will use quite a lot of ink so be sure each cartridge has at least 40% or more of ink.

Hope this helps.


Brian
« Last Edit: January 30, 2014, 10:55:58 pm by BrianWJH »
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Farmer

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Re: Another 4900 horror story
« Reply #54 on: January 30, 2014, 11:37:53 pm »

Andrew - anything that can script opening the driver and clicking on Nozzle Check and then closing the subsequent dialogues, would work fine.  There should be numerous utlitiies available for OS X that could do that running in some sort of cron.
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Phil Brown

Ray R

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Re: Another 4900 horror story
« Reply #55 on: January 31, 2014, 02:54:46 am »

I am interested in which version people are using on their 4900.

I have had my 4900 for sometime, and looked at using Harvey Head Cleaner but there was not one available for the 4900.

Having checked today there is still not one listed.

I emailed them sometime ago and not received a reply.

Thanks
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jrsforums

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Re: Another 4900 horror story
« Reply #56 on: January 31, 2014, 06:08:44 am »

I am interested in which version people are using on their 4900.

I have had my 4900 for sometime, and looked at using Harvey Head Cleaner but there was not one available for the 4900.

Having checked today there is still not one listed.

I emailed them sometime ago and not received a reply.

Thanks

Try again.....I got an almost immediate reply.  You are looking for version III-A

John
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Ray R

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Re: Another 4900 horror story
« Reply #57 on: January 31, 2014, 09:05:11 am »

Thanks,

I will try again

Ray
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Mark D Segal

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Re: Another 4900 horror story
« Reply #58 on: January 31, 2014, 09:25:37 am »

UPDATE.

What a saga. The printer still refuses to print anything. I spoke to Epson tech support. They were adamant that they "don't support customers at the hardware level". Yet, he was able to answer a few questions which did not lead to any solution. I got better luck speaking the the local Fuji guy that fixes these machines. Until he sees the printer physically, he can only speculate. I took the head apart one more time just to make sure that it wasn't blocked mechanically, it is still let cleaning fluid pass through. All may not be lost. Still, the printer does not produce any image, the nozzle check pattern produces a clean and immaculate sheet -- impressive. I'm still not sure that the head is NOT completely blocked but I have now established that cleaning does not pass any fluid through the head. I tried putting in a brand new ink maintenance tank that I previously weighed at 248g. I figure, if ink actually travels through the head, it is going to show up in the ink maintenance tank. But, there was no difference before and after cleaning, the tank still weighed 248g. Which leaves a few possibilities open. Either ink is blocked in the Ink Selector Assembly (a definite possibility) or in the tubes (yet, none of them are showing bubles and are all full). Or, it is possible that the pump, on the cap assembly fails to create the required vaccum to pass ink through the head. I wish there was a simple diagnostic to check the pump? Or, as the Fuji tech suggested, it is possible that the mainboard is not sending signals to the system to fire ink? This machine is really complex, and without any kind of "model" of how it operates, it's hard to figure.

I was hoping that, perhaps, through an Ink Flush and initial ink charge, I would get ink flowing again in the head and salvage my printer but now that I know for sure, that no ink is pulled in the cap assembly, forget doing an Ink Flush. It won't do anything.

Just spoke to my friend at Fuji and he's not convinced that the head is still operational. According to the symptoms I describe, it's possible that the pump cap assembly would need to be changed. But it's possible the problem is the head. I am thinking that, perhaps, cleaning the head differently? With a solution like PiezoFlush? Worth trying. At this stage, the printer is getting closer to the door by the day... Will make sure to buy the Extended Warranty Program *if* I decide to give more of my hard-earned money to Mr. Epson again. I may go for the 3880, which is less exensive, but I so appreciate the convenience of roll fed.

Roger, I hope you haven't destroyed your printer, but honestly, people who are not trained in the servicing of this high-tech equipment really shouldn't be messing around in it - I suffer clogging issues with it too, but I would never go beyond what is in the product manual and what Epson Pro Graphics advises over the phone. Fortunately I have always been able to recover it using Epson-recommended routines, but if the time comes that it simply doesn't recover I would be faced with a fairly straightforward proposition of either letting them repair it, or replacing it, whichever is cheaper. When I discussed the extended warranty question with an Epson rep here in Canada I was advised on a candid basis that the return rate is too low to make it worth the cost. Assuming this is a true reflection of their overall experience with this printer, it would seem that those of us who need to leave them unused for a period of time have a particular issue that needs a particular solution of the kind being discussed here (automated printing cycles). I am also thinking of further increasing the humidity level in my office. I continue to believe this is an excellent printer with one major issue for those of us not using them continuously.
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Mark D Segal (formerly MarkDS)
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Mark D Segal

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Re: Another 4900 horror story
« Reply #59 on: January 31, 2014, 09:29:53 am »

Roger you say that the head is letting cleaning fluid through, how are you testing this, what are you seeing that tells you fluid is passing through?

Provided you have correctly seated the printhead into the damper assembly the seal should be ok.

It would be unlikely that all dampers would be blocked, so I'd rule that out, individual dampers could have blockages but some channels should be passing ink when primed.

Regarding the ink lines, yes it's possible to have air bubbles trapped in them and also for ink to coagulate or clump through non-usage, you can usually see clumped ink or air bubbles in the ink lines using a torch


The ink system pressurizes the ink carts which forces ink through the ink lines to the damper assembly and finally into the printhead. Unless you have disassembled any of the air pressurization system then for the time being I'd rule that out.

First I would try good quality de-ionized or distilled water and see if it passes through the printhead.

Brian.

Brian, you sound as if you are a person with a professional background in the technology of this printer. As you are offering some fairly detailed technical advice here I think it OK to ask about your professional expertise with this technology, or are you speaking from the experience of "informed and successful tinkering"? Just curious.
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Mark D Segal (formerly MarkDS)
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