Another 4900 horror story

[John Caldwell]

Mike, What humidifier did you end up with?

John-

[hugowolf]

Mike, What humidifier did you end up with?

I think Mike went with this http://www.luminous-landscape.com/forum/index.php?topic=86649.msg704851#msg704851

I went with http://www.homedepot.com/p/Essick-Air-Products-5-Gal-Whole-House-Contemporary-Humidifier-for-2900-sq-ft-HD1409/204364015

I have nothing to compare it to, so others may be better. It does work. Has two tanks plus a reservoir. Two tanks is a handy feature, since it empties one before using the other.

Brian A

[John Caldwell]

Thank you (for both suggestions), Brian.

John-

[Mike Guilbault]

Yes... this one: http://www.sears.ca/product/kenmore-md-454-litre-digital-humidifier/642-000017871-758_3_29982OC

I'm very pleased with it - usually only fill it once a day - sometimes in the morning and then again before I leave for the day, but only when it's really dry. 

[tsjanik]

I've been dealing with a PK block for about two weeks.  I tried a clean, printing(s), power clean all with at least a day interval between the cleans - no progress.  I then allowed a tray of water to sit in the printer and slowly saw progress in the nozzle check over a period of about a week.  Today I printed a nozzle check, saw some improvement and then clean and the nozzles that were clear are now blocked again.  I certainly didn't expect a clean to cause blockage; has anyone had a similar experience?

Tom

[JeffW]

I have. Not sure of the exact process that occurs, but had a small amount of drop out, cleaned, and lost the whole color. Slowly over time, one jet at a time, one jet each day, I would get the color back by doing a test print each day. Very, very frustrating.

I wish I had an answer for you. Currently, my entire VM has dropped and have not been successful in getting any jets back.

Up until the point of loss, I was using the Harvey Head Cleaner, with great success, 6 months without a problem. Then the humidity dropped, didn't get my humidifier fired up in time, and bam! &/@:&(.

[Mark D Segal]

Yes, doing a nozzle check after a cleaning sometimes shows gaps that did not exist before the cleaning. I have no idea why this happens, save to speculate that it could be some miniscule pieces of dry ink or dirt that get moved from one position to another rather than removed, but I hasten to emphasize this is speculation. It would really be nice and helpful if Epson would produce an extended manual describing these issues, how they occur and the best way to recover from them. It would save a lot of customer frustration. The overwhelming majority of us will still keep using their printers and inks.

[Christoph C. Feldhaim]

Yes, doing a nozzle check after a cleaning sometimes shows gaps that did not exist before the cleaning. I have no idea why this happens, save to speculate that it could be some miniscule pieces of dry ink or dirt that get moved from one position to another rather than removed, but I hasten to emphasize this is speculation. It would really be nice and helpful if Epson would produce an extended manual describing these issues, how they occur and the best way to recover from them. It would save a lot of customer frustration. The overwhelming majority of us will still keep using their printers and inks.

I simply wish I had a service manual for my 7890. I hate to see it can't be downloaded for free from Epson ...

[Mark D Segal]

That's right - service manuals their IP and they confine them to people who are specifically trained to use them.

[tsjanik]

............... It would really be nice and helpful if Epson would produce an extended manual describing these issues, how they occur and the best way to recover from them. It would save a lot of customer frustration. ....................

Well my 4900 is slowly allowing PK nozzles to appear, I'm very reluctant to try another clean.  Yes Mark, it would be helpful if Epson had guidelines for clogging.  Perhaps there is no reliable way to clear clogs. Looking at Epson's description of x900 printers, it appears they would rather not acknowledge the clogging problem at all.

"Clogged nozzles are a thing of the past with the newest ink repelling coating and auto verification technologies", from the Epson 9900 page.

Tom

[Georgecp]

I have lived through many of the same issues described here...I found that cleaning cycles made new clogs appear while not addressing old ones.

Over several episodes of these problems, the one thing that has always brought the printer "back" was an initial ink charge performed using the maintenance adjustment program.  I an guess why it works (new ink getting drawn into the head and filling gaps/dissolving the reason for blockages); however, I certainly cannot be sure.  I used piezo flush one time when the clog was very bad and it cleared up after sitting for a few days.

Like others on this thread, I use humidification to help the problem.  I purchased two cigar box humidifiers and fill them with glycol - I keep this in the printer well (with a sticker to remind me to remove them before I power it on)...I got this tip from someone on the Leica forum and it works for me.

I am frustrated by Epson's lack of concern for their customers who have spent countless hours, ink, angst because of a clear issue with this generation of printers.  Their silence can only be construed as a lack of pressure to respond because they have not meaningful competition.  Look at the 17" market for professional printers - other than the 4900, there is nothing new for the last several years.  Canon's IPF5100, which I owned for 5 years, is a nice yet old design.

I am not sure what this means for the serious printer market - however, it can't be good.

I hope that if Epson does provide a new head that addresses this flaw, they will make it available (for a price) even to those of us who have purchased their beta product...

[Mark D Segal]

I hope that if Epson does provide a new head that addresses this flaw, they will make it available (for a price) even to those of us who have purchased their beta product...

Sorry - with all due respect you cannot call an Epson 4900 a "beta product". You don't know how many thousands of these printers are being used world-wide and what the failure rate is. Those of us, including me, who get clogs because they sometimes sit not being used enough relative to what the printer was designed for do not make it a beta product. I too wish for more transparency and some real solutions from Epson for this specific issue, but apart from that it is a very sophisticated printer producing incredibly good quality output.

[Georgecp]

Hi Mark,

I appreciate your comment and perhaps I am being somewhat harsh; however, there is certainly enough evidence among the many stories here (and elsewhere)  that something is not right with this product line.  The fact that the printer has caused so much difficulty to the point where maintenance and ink clogging procedures overtake actual printing for low volume users is a very real flaw.

By definition, a professional product should have more robust procedures, practices, and built-in ways to prevent or solve the kind of operational problems that this printer has exhibited.  It does not.  Epson has left its best customer base to fend for itself and hide behind the "extended warranty" argument.  That is the essence of my "beta" comment.

More competition would solve this problem quickly; unfortunately, I don't see that on the horizon.

[Mark D Segal]

Hi Mark,

I appreciate your comment and perhaps I am being somewhat harsh; however, there is certainly enough evidence among the many stories here (and elsewhere)  that something is not right with this product line.  The fact that the printer has caused so much difficulty to the point where maintenance and ink clogging procedures overtake actual printing for low volume users is a very real flaw.

By definition, a professional product should have more robust procedures, practices, and built-in ways to prevent or solve the kind of operational problems that this printer has exhibited.  It does not.  Epson has left its best customer base to fend for itself and hide behind the "extended warranty" argument.  That is the essence of my "beta" comment.

More competition would solve this problem quickly; unfortunately, I don't see that on the horizon.

No there isn't enough evidence. What you read in these forums is very likely an extremely small sample of total usage world-wide. Even with the clogs I have experienced due to frequent periods of inactivity, there is NO WAY cleaning procedures consume anywhere near the amount of ink I consume making prints. Unfortunately Epson has made it very difficult to track the exact data between cleaning and printing since the days when I was able to publish such findings from information their nozzle checks once revealed and they then suppressed. But I can tell from the information that is available what I am saying is broadly correct - in my circumstances. Your definition of a professional product is of course your opinion to which you are entitled. But please consider that if Epson designed the machine for continuous use and the people who use it continuously hardly experience these problems then it is a professional product even by your definition. I mainly fault Epson for not having made this clear from the get-go and not having provided more insight into causes and solutions for those affected; I would like to see them more engaged, but I strongly believe it is fear of legal complications that holds them back. The one thing I agree with you about is that more competition is unlikely. Printing is in recession as growing numbers of people are increasingly viewing and sharing their photos in other ways.

[vazuw55]

Wow, I just ordered a new 4900 yesterday and saw this thread today. Should I send that sucker back ??

[Mark D Segal]

Wow, I just ordered a new 4900 yesterday and saw this thread today. Should I send that sucker back ??

If you intend to use it several times a week, of course not. It's an excellent printer that should deliver great image quality you should be very satisfied with if you know how to print. If you intend to use it infrequently you may wish to consider a 3880 instead.

[Mike Guilbault]

... what Mark said... and if you do get it, maintain humidity in your print room.  I liked my 4900 so much that I also purchased the 9900 and run them side by side.

[Roger_Breton]

Update 6 / Feb 12, 2014

I had the friendly visit of an Epson technician yesterday. He took apart the right hand side of the printer, to get to the pump.
He hypothesized that the pump was not doing its job. But after a few "powerful cleaning", he was satisfied that the pump was not the culprit.
He managed to get Orange and Light Magenta to show on the nozzle check.
He tried one or two additional powerful cleanings while closerly observing the working of the pump and the clear tubes that are conducting the sucked up inks
to the Maintenance Tank. He must have spent 90 minutes working on my printer but in the end, he could not see what would keep the other colors to show up on the nozzle check. So we brainstorms possible ideas. He suggested I got the Epson Adjustment program to conduct and "Ink Eject" : if I see all inks passed through the tubing on their way to the Maintenant Tank then, he thought, we will know the problem is not coming from the head.

This afternoon, after obtaining the Epson Adjustment program, I tried a nozzle check first. I was suprised to see, not only Orange and Light Magenta but also
a bit of Light Cyan and Light Black. Then I tried to issue the Ink Eject command. I observe that some ink was actually pulled through the tubing but not much?
In fact, after 3 minutes of this, the printer stopped and I got the following error message "Something went wrong, please check the printer. The printer does not become ready".
This, to me, indicates that the printer is unable to complete the command fully. I tried two more times, in case. Same error message. Then, having nothing to lose, I tried issuing the "Ink Charge" command. I got a nice "The command has been transmitted to the printer. Do no send another command as long as the sequence is still running". Well, it's been 15 minutes now and nothing is happening on the printer side. Looks like the printer is still idle. Just tried sending a nozzle check and nothing? Maybe the printer knows internally that the ink cartridges are empty, most of them were "initial cartridges". I restarted the printer and the software, and tried my luck with another nozzle check but, no response? Ah! Got a "Communication error message". I couldn't turn the printer off from the front panel so I pulled the power plug and got a "Fatal Error: 3000".

At this point, I am not encouraged. I guess I coud try another Ink Eject? I have not done the SL2 which they say is recommended to "fill the head with ink" after setting a new print head? Actually, when I tried to issue SL2 earlier, nothing happened? I just tried it now and got the message "Not enough ink"?

At this point, I'd have to buy new ink cartridges to further continue the process. But I'm not optimistic about the prospect.
It's very possible that I have fried the delicate piezzo in my heads by injecting Windex, water, nail remover, 95% alcool and compressed air -- the works.

I was toying with the possibility of refilling (somehow?) the empty ink cartridges with water? Just so that I could see whether it's possible to further clean the system.

On YouTube, I saw that it's possible to inject ink in a OEM Epson cartridge, with a syringe. But I'd have to have a way of resetting the chip? otherwise, even if I fill the cartridge
with water, the printer will see the cartridges as empty?

What a saga. Better dump the printer now? And order a new one?
 

[John V.]

My 4900 sits for weeks at a time currently (unfortunately), and I've yet to have any serious problems (1-2 years). The humidity here is above 50% and I print nozzle checks twice a week or so, however. What I'm wondering: I use just regular cheap copy/print paper to print the nozzle checks. Is this not a good idea? And also, should I be cycling the black inks, or does this not make any difference (from a maintenance point of view)?

[BrianWJH]

What I'm wondering: I use just regular cheap copy/print paper to print the nozzle checks. Is this not a good idea?

Copy paper is fine for nozzle checks.

And also, should I be cycling the black inks, or does this not make any difference (from a maintenance point of view)?

PK and Matte PK use the same printhead nozzles, so from a nozzle point of view either primary Black will exercise the nozzles, however switching the primary Blacks periodically is a good idea because it purges ink through the associated ink dampers and ink lines which helps to stop ink pigment settling in them.

Brian.