Topic: Good shift lenses for A7r? (Read 10054 times)

favalim · « **on:** January 27, 2014, 06:35:41 am »

I'm buying the "little toy" as support to my Credo 60 and Rodie lenses; I'll use it for minor and fast work but I need shift lenses to use with.
I'll have a 24 TS-E II soon but I don't want to buy the 45 TS-E wich I already had (fringe problems, no sharpness ...). I've read also Nikon shift lenses are not as good.
Is there something better in the range 35-55 wich can be used with some adaptor? The possiblity to use different brands for lenses is amazing!
Thanks

torger · « **Reply #1 on:** January 27, 2014, 07:02:33 am »

For 35mm the least bad one seems to be the combination Canon 1.4x extender III and TS-E 24 II (important that it's version III and II to get decent performance). I've used that myself and with a Canon's 21 megapixel sensor I get perfectly usable results.

Here's a full-size shot done with this combination, it's a temporary web site so image won't stay forever: *removed*
More formal tests of this combination can be found at http://www.the-digital-picture.com

As the combo is not officially supported the converter is invisible in the exif data, and aperture setting needs to be up one stop. Ie, the example shot at f/10 is effectively f/14. It's shifted up in the example, don't remember exactly but judging for the horizon it's 4-5mm or so. The results are quite smooth corner to corner but you don't get that peak sharpness (you need to stop down and suffer some diffraction to get good corners), so you might not gain so much from those extra megapixels on the A7r.

For 45mm I don't know, current Canon and Nikon is not that good. Perhaps Schneider PC TS 50mm (haven't heard much good about it though, I think people expect more as it's a quite expensive lens)? Both Canon's 90 and Nikon's 85mm should be quite sharp though (it's an "easy" focal length to make sharp), although movements are a bit limited.

Canon updating the 45 and 90mm to version II has been rumoured ever since 24 II came out, and it's quite clear it's going to happen but noone knows when. Maybe 2014 is the year.

If you're sensitive to distortion (architecture) look into that. These lenses and combinations may have more distortion than you want, I don't know much about it myself so I can't say anything.

qwz · « **Reply #2 on:** January 27, 2014, 01:26:00 pm »

For 45mm TS you can choose MF lens via Mirex adapter - like excellent Pentax67 45|55mm or more pricey (but not better) CZ Distagons 50mm.

rainer_v · « **Reply #3 on:** January 27, 2014, 02:53:34 pm »

or the zoerk adapter with pentax (35)/45/55/75 lenses. all are excellent.

Telecaster · « **Reply #4 on:** January 27, 2014, 03:32:27 pm »

I'm waiting on an adapter for my Mamiya 50/4 shift lens. In the meantime I've given my old Nikon 28/3.5 PC a couple spins, with good preliminary results at f/16.

-Dave-

alan_b · « **Reply #5 on:** January 27, 2014, 04:30:14 pm »

Quote from: favalim on January 27, 2014, 06:35:41 am

I'm buying the "little toy" as support to my Credo 60 and Rodie lenses; I'll use it for minor and fast work but I need shift lenses to use with.
I'll have a 24 TS-E II soon but I don't want to buy the 45 TS-E wich I already had (fringe problems, no sharpness ...). I've read also Nikon shift lenses are not as good.
Is there something better in the range 35-55 wich can be used with some adaptor? The possiblity to use different brands for lenses is amazing!
Thanks

I think the Nikon 45PCE is good, but not practical for adaptation at this point due to it's electro-mechanical aperture. Maybe someone will make a smart adapter for these?

There's always the Schneider 50mm TS, available in several mounts:
http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/818356-REG/Schneider_06_1066459_PC_TS_Super_Angulon.html

Chris Barrett · « **Reply #6 on:** January 27, 2014, 04:56:21 pm »

I'm teetering on the verge of picking up a Contax 35mm Shifter (Zeiss glass of course). They run around $2k on eBay and are reportedly exceptional.

RomanN. · « **Reply #7 on:** January 27, 2014, 06:06:26 pm »

I used Mamiya 4/55 shift on both: nikon d800 and sony a7r ( also on mamiya of course). Very good lens, could be better ( must be used at 11,5-16), but for that price really first class.
Zeiss/ Hartblei 40 mm seems to be the sharpest lens in that kind, but the price... I also tested the 17 mm on Sony with Metabones:
- good news: the lens can be used with full movements ( 12 mm) in all directions. No problems.
- sharpness: its hard to use, much harder than on canon 5dII and other canons, but its work. Even at max shift the corners are sharp at 13.
at 8 usable without shift.
to the adapters: novoflex seems to be much better made than the metabones, but there are only novoflex for nikon lenses, non for canon.

georgem · « **Reply #8 on:** January 28, 2014, 01:26:29 am »

For those considering a 35mm shift lens, this review might be useful: http://www.16-9.net/lens_tests/35mm_shift/35mm_test1.html

stefan marquardt · « **Reply #9 on:** January 28, 2014, 06:25:35 am »

another recommendation for the pentax 35mm (FA) with the zörk shiftadaper. as sharp (or sharper) than my canon 24mm ts-e plus kenko 1,4 converter.

MrSmith · « **Reply #10 on:** January 28, 2014, 06:27:58 am »

have you tried the latest canon 1.4 converter? that may be a better option? (i use this combo myself after being disappointed with the 45 ts-e.
the 90 though is fantastic and even if they bring a new one out i'll probably not rush to upgrade, it's very sharp and probably my most used lens.

torger · « **Reply #11 on:** January 28, 2014, 06:37:11 am »

I would also recommend testing with Canon's own extender III. The quality that canon reaches with their generation III extenders is as far as I know not to be found in any other brand. It's also considerably better than their own version II.

stefan marquardt · « **Reply #12 on:** January 28, 2014, 06:42:45 am »

yes - the newest canon is probably a better choice. I used mine only on the 17mm ts-e before I got the 24mm ts-e. (for 80% of the frame it showed nearly no loss of resolution - only the left side was a bit soft.)

rainer_v · « **Reply #13 on:** January 28, 2014, 05:31:20 pm »

direct compared the 24tse + canon ext is better than the 35 fa, much better. at least my samples ..

favalim · « **Reply #14 on:** January 28, 2014, 05:41:09 pm »

Quote from: rainer_v on January 28, 2014, 05:31:20 pm

direct compared the 24tse + canon ext is better than the 35 fa, much better. at least my samples ..

Rainer, so with a 2X MKIII I can use it as 48mm isn'it?

rainer_v · « **Reply #15 on:** January 29, 2014, 01:05:27 am »

i havent tried, but as longer the mag. as bigger the amplfication. somehwere will be the limit ...

stefan marquardt · « **Reply #16 on:** January 29, 2014, 02:52:05 am »

makes me wonder, if i have a super sample of the 35mm fa or a less good sample of the 24mm tse

Quote from: rainer_v on January 28, 2014, 05:31:20 pm

direct compared the 24tse + canon ext is better than the 35 fa, much better. at least my samples ..

favalim · « **Reply #17 on:** January 29, 2014, 03:16:45 am »

Quote from: rainer_v on January 29, 2014, 01:05:27 am

i havent tried, but as longer the mag. as bigger the amplfication. somehwere will be the limit ...

you're right:
http://www.the-digital-picture.com/Reviews/ISO-12233-Sample-Crops.aspx?Lens=486&Camera=453&Sample=0&FLI=2&API=2&LensComp=486&CameraComp=453&SampleComp=0&FLIComp=0&APIComp=0

marc aurel · « **Reply #18 on:** January 29, 2014, 06:53:28 am »

Quote from: Chris Barrett on January 27, 2014, 04:56:21 pm

I'm teetering on the verge of picking up a Contax 35mm Shifter (Zeiss glass of course). They run around $2k on eBay and are reportedly exceptional.

Hi Chris,
I can confirm that the PC-Distagon 35mm is excellent. It's great on 5Ds and on the 36MP-sensor of the A7R it shines - even in the last pixel of the shifted corners. The PC-Distagon handles a bit different than the TS-Es - but quite simple and intuitive. It has no tilt so it might not serve everybody's needs. On the A7R I use it with a novoflex adapter. I didn't find any problems with internal reflections (as with the metabones adapter).

PC-Distagon 35mm compared to Hartblei 40mm:
Before I bought a used PC-Distagon last year I had used a Hartblei 40mm for my architectural work. The Hartblei is great too. But for me it had some drawbacks: The Hartblei 40mm it is extremely large and heavy (about 1.500gr which is about twice as much as the PC-Distagon). Using shift on the Hartblei is counter-intuitive for me - especially when switching between Canons TS-Es and the Hartblei. Because of it's weight you mount the lens on the tripod. Some might like that for parallax-free stitching. But changing the direction of shift (from up to down or to left/right/diagonal) means rotating lens and camera in the lens collar and then rotate camera versus lens. For me it took a lot of time to do this without having to think about it. Under time pressure on paid jobs I rarely decided to take the time to use the Hartblei. For interiors I often felt that 40mm is just a bit too long. So after 1 1/2 years of carrying it around on paid jobs I counted that only about 2% of the images I sent to the cusomers were taken with the Hartblei. Not because of image quality. Just because of weight and handling. And that lens costs a fortune. After selling it and buying the used PC-Distagon I had a lot of money left.

I compared the PC-Distagon to the TS-E 24 II with Canon 1.4 Extender III too. But that is a different league. The TS-E+Extender-combination is much worse. I didn't have the opportunity to compare against the pentax lenses on mirex adapter.

Tests images:
I can only provide a test I did last year on 5DIII. I don't own the Hartblei any more. But with the PC-Distagon on A7R I get excellent results too.
The following images were taken at f11 with full shift. 10 minutes time between them. Captured in RAW, converted in lightroom, white balance and sharpening identical. Crops are at 100 percent.
1. Resolution at f11: In my eyes they are both excellent. You have to look a long time to see differences in sharpness.
2. Resolution at f8: for unshifted images f8 is about equal to f11 on both lenses. Shifted corners improve clearly at f11.
3. Resolution at larger apertures and bokeh: below f8 the Hartblei is clearly better in the image centre. If has a beautiful bokeh. But for my architectural work this is not relevant.
4. Distortion: there are obvious differences in the kind of distortion. Both cannot be used uncorrected for architecture. For the Hartblei I shot dozens of calibration charts with adobe lens profile creator just to get corrections for rise and fall. When you combine rise/fall with shifting right or left (which I do sometimes) you need even more calibration shots. For the PC-Distagon there is a profile for the free Alpa plugin for photoshop. If you have noted (or can reconstruct) how much shift in which directions you used - the result is perfect.

Sadly Zeiss in Germany doesn't do any repairs on this lens any more. But there is a very capable repair service in Germany (Foto Wiese in Hamburg). They overhauled the shift mechanism of my sample and it works like new now.

I hope that helps in the discussion about shift-options in the 35mm-range. I don't understand why nobody makes a 35mm shift-lens any more. It used to be a standard for a long time. Sometimes 24mm is just too wide for interiors and 45mm is too long. Would be great if Canon would add a new 35 to their lineup.

Marc

Christoph C. Feldhaim · « **Reply #19 on:** January 29, 2014, 06:55:27 am »

Will T/S lenses which fit on the A7R with a metabones speedbooster still be usable, so they'd keep their virtual focal length?
Or will the optical design of a speedbooster make them unusable?

Author Topic: Good shift lenses for A7r? (Read 10054 times)

MrSmith