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Author Topic: Mounting to gatorboard  (Read 33069 times)

bill t.

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Re: Mounting to gatorboard
« Reply #20 on: January 21, 2014, 01:08:19 am »

"Miracle Muck" from Raphaels is great stuff.  But it's really only PVA glue with slightly longer polymers than say Elmer's White Glue which you can but a office supply stores.

"Lamin-All" is the same stuff, but with some sodium bicarbonate added to buffer it to pH neutral.  I don't think that's very import for dried glue.

No need for a press!  Search "Miracle Muck" on this forum for 20 different, equally good ways to roll out your tube-wound print over a Muck-coated piece of Gator.  Piece o' cake! You press it gently down with your cotton-gloved hand.   Much easier than any process involving adhesives.  Muck is also reversible!  If you heat a Muck-mounted print in a heat press at about 170F for about a minute or two, you peel it right off the substrate, clean as a whistle.  And if it ever starts to peel up, you can reseal it with a household iron.  So far I have had zero problems with Muck-prints, and I've got many thousands of those babies out in the field.

No need for custom cutting!  Gator cuts easily with a utility knife and a straight edge.  You can even use an Xacto knife if you don't value your fingers.

Try to buy your Gator from a professional sign supplier, or a wholesale supplier like Piedmont Plastics.  Most suppliers that carry plastic sheets will carry Gator, even though it's not strictly plastic.  If you pay more than $43 for a 4' x 8' x 3/16" sheet, you are being robbed.  The online stores are run by crooks.
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dgberg

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Re: Mounting to gatorboard
« Reply #21 on: January 21, 2014, 04:33:44 am »

What adhesive would you Gatorboard experts suggest for inkjet paper? I mounted some photos to what I thought was reasonable quality self-adhesive foam board and they all quickly warped. Glueing wood strips to the back helped take out some of the warp, but they still don't look all that great. I guess I'm going to have to ante up for the good stuff, if I want flat prints. There's a company in Chicago that will cut Gatorboard to the exact size of the print for a fairly reasonable cost. I have a cheapo dry laminator to put some pressure on the print, but I need an adhesive that will give me some time to get the print properly aligned with the board before laminating.

Any suggestions?

Thanks.


Check out Artgrafix one of many companies that handles precut Gatorboard sizes with cold mount adhesive.
Many sizes to choose from and the only thing that is easier then Miracle Muck.
You do not need time to align your print
Peel back an inch of the adhesive liner and fold it back. Line your print on the exposed adhesive and burnish that end down.
Pull the liner from underneath the print while burnishing the print with a brayer or your hand.
If you have a manual laminator run it through and that is it. For the bigger ones it makes it easier to have a little bleed.
After laminating flip it over and trim with a razor and your done.
Probably 25 videos on Youtube showing the process. (Drytac's videos are good.)
« Last Edit: January 21, 2014, 04:43:54 am by Dan Berg »
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framah

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Re: Mounting to gatorboard
« Reply #22 on: January 21, 2014, 10:39:34 am »

Here's another little trick for working with GB.

You know how the back edge gets all chippy?  Well... go to your local Home Despot and buy a sheet rock sander.

]
This will allow you to sand off those edges nice and smooth.

Another little fun fact about GB is that the surface isn't always clean and smooth.  Run your hand over the surface and feel the little bumps of schmutz that is there. This sander will help with that as well. Once you have sanded it, wipe it with a slightly damp cloth to get rid of the dust.
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dgberg

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Re: Mounting to gatorboard
« Reply #23 on: January 21, 2014, 11:09:52 am »

Here's another little trick for working with GB.

You know how the back edge gets all chippy?  Well... go to your local Home Despot and buy a sheet rock sander.

]
This will allow you to sand off those edges nice and smooth.

Another little fun fact about GB is that the surface isn't always clean and smooth.  Run your hand over the surface and feel the little bumps of schmutz that is there. This sander will help with that as well. Once you have sanded it, wipe it with a slightly damp cloth to get rid of the dust.







Or take it to your jointer with a helical head and run all 4 edges over the jointer head. (Yeah I know not everyone has one,but you should.)
Comes out smooth as glass even with the print attached.
For the customers that wants to hang their gator prints with no frame that is what I do.
The only gatorboard/print mount that you cannot trim smoothly this way is canvas on gator. You get tiny little tearout threads showing,no good.
« Last Edit: January 21, 2014, 01:38:06 pm by Dan Berg »
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Manoli

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Re: Mounting to gatorboard
« Reply #24 on: January 21, 2014, 11:25:36 am »

For the customers that wants to hang their gator prints with no frame that is what I do.
The only gatorboard/print mount that you cannot trim smoothly this way is canvas on gator. You get tiny little tearout threads showing,no good.

It would improve the legibility of your posts if you could post your comments OUTSIDE the quote box !
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Peter McLennan

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Re: Mounting to gatorboard
« Reply #25 on: January 21, 2014, 11:48:49 am »

If you pay more than $43 for a 4' x 8' x 3/16" sheet, you are being robbed.  The online stores are run by crooks.

More excellent data.  Thanks again. 

Is 3/16ths the optimum thickness?   3/16ths seems pretty close to regular foam core.

Does the thickness requirement vary with image size?

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Mike Raub

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Re: Mounting to gatorboard
« Reply #26 on: January 21, 2014, 11:58:50 am »

Great advice. I checked Artgrafix and they sell 17X22 self-adhesive Gatorboard for about $10 each ($105 for 10). Is that a reasonable deal? I'm sure it would be cheaper to buy it by the 4X8 sheet, but I don't have a vehicle that will transport anything that size.
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snowrs

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Re: Mounting to gatorboard
« Reply #27 on: January 21, 2014, 12:22:27 pm »

Look at:

http://www.foamboardsource.com/gatorfoams--gatorfoam--3-16--gatorfoam.html

They are usually very competitive on pricing, and pack products for shipping better than I have ever seen.

bob snow
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bill t.

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Re: Mounting to gatorboard
« Reply #28 on: January 21, 2014, 01:12:14 pm »

Those 17x22 sheets are priced at about $3.80 per square foot, versus the $1.35 I pay to my local supplier for 4x8 sheets.  About a 3x markup.  But hey, convenience is worth something and it costs something to cut down those sheets.  Maybe I was being too harsh with the "crooks" designation.  They are merely Mafia wannabees.

Gator is a prime example of stuff you should be buying from a local supplier.  For my local supplier, I can buy a case of 15, 4x8 sheets for $0.00 shipping and they deliver for free.  If I order it in, I have to pay the minimum freight charge of about $150.00, and about 10% to 30% of the sheets will be somewhat (or hugely) damaged by the notoriously gentle handling it received on the shipping docks and trucks.  The avoidance of shipping is worth something, even if you find a technically better deal online, which you probably won't.  I know a guy who drives 300 miles round trip from Northern New Mexico to pick up his Gator at my Albuquerque supplier.

3/16" is fine for very large prints.  You're probably OK up to somewhere around 36 x 72 inches.  A lot depends on how you're going to present it.  The vertical dimension is your limiting factor since it is subject to sagging.  For instance a 30 x 120 x 3/16 mounted canvas would be just fine, but a 44 x 120 x 3/16 would probably be a bad call.  All that assumes the pieces are rigidified by frames.  If you are presenting just a print on Gator, you would need to go thicker at much smaller dimensions.

1/2" or thicker looks better for cosmetic reasons, especially if you want to wrap the print around the back a la gallery wrap.  For extremely large framed pieces the Gator becomes the major structural element and essentially carries the frame along for the ride, at least in cases where you are using polystyrene frames to keep the total weight under control.  In certain cases you may need to hang the piece from the Gator rather than the frame, that's when 1 inch may be called for, and that will make a dent in your credit card.

Edit: oh yeah, the user-cut edges of Gator can be like very sharp serrated knives, especially as a result of sloppy cuts.  Watch out.  If you handle Gator you WILL bleed, sooner than later.  Always know the shortest route to your bottle of Bactine and box of bandages.  When you grasp a cut piece of Gator, be darned sure you don't let it slide against your flesh.  Always say to yourself, "I'm gonna hold on to this piece of Gator very firmly, and it's not going to slide along my fingers, because I hate the sight of blood, especially when it's my own."  'Nuf said.
« Last Edit: January 21, 2014, 01:21:53 pm by bill t. »
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framah

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Re: Mounting to gatorboard
« Reply #29 on: January 21, 2014, 05:17:09 pm »

Hey, Bill...

Thus the sheetrock sander!  ;D  It's just like seaming the edge of glass. Both take the sharp chisel off the edge. No blood, no fainting, no stitches from hitting head on bench while fainting, no crying when receiving the Ambulance bill...

You know about seaming glass, right?
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bill t.

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Re: Mounting to gatorboard
« Reply #30 on: January 21, 2014, 05:53:26 pm »

Haven't got time for sanders!  Or the dust removal equipment, either.  Prior to gluing the print I run a wad of slightly-wet paper towels over the bare Gator, then give a final tactile check by sensuously running my fingers over its naked body.  If you gotta do framing, you gotta have some fun, right?
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Peter McLennan

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Re: Mounting to gatorboard
« Reply #31 on: January 21, 2014, 10:22:19 pm »

Now you guys is scaring me. :)
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framah

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Re: Mounting to gatorboard
« Reply #32 on: January 22, 2014, 09:50:16 am »

Oooooh, bare Gator!!! Oh baby!! Oh yeah!! :o

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Paul2660

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Re: Mounting to gatorboard
« Reply #33 on: January 23, 2014, 07:58:14 am »

With 1/2 gator all you need it one cut as you can snap it after that.  The results will give you a clean cut 100% of the time.  This does not work with the 3/16" in my experience.  It took me a few months of working with the 1/2 before I realized this feature and trust me it saves a ton of time with large prints. 

If you are working with large prints, say 36" x 72" or 40" x 60" on 1/2, making 3 separate cuts can be tough.  It's so easy for the ruler to move during a cut and that's all it takes to mess up the entire mount.  I work alone and don't have anyone to hold the ruler on the far end. 

All my gator on canvas goes into a frame and if you happen to get a snag, the frame will hide it.

Paul





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Paul Caldwell
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huguito

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Re: Mounting to gatorboard
« Reply #34 on: January 24, 2014, 10:06:13 am »

If you want to present the paper or canvas print on gator by itself, without a frame,
What simple options are there to dress the sides of it without maknig it too expensive or complicated?

Hugo
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John Caldwell

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Re: Mounting to gatorboard
« Reply #35 on: January 24, 2014, 10:12:40 am »

A local graphics house mounts all my prints to 1/2" gator. We laminate with a luster material for papers like Canson Baryta, and with glossy laminate for metallic papers. All mounts receive an edge treatment with black glue-on melamine. What are you all fininshing your edges with, and what are you using for face protection if not laminates, please?

Thanks,

John Caldwell
« Last Edit: January 24, 2014, 10:16:18 am by John Caldwell »
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dgberg

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Re: Mounting to gatorboard
« Reply #36 on: January 24, 2014, 10:58:24 am »

My Dibond/Gatorboard supplier Harbor Sales in Sudlersville Md. sells 8 foot lengths of pvc edge cap. Black,white and silver.
This is really for 1/2" gator but I use it on 3/8" with a little ATG 3M tape to keep it tight.
It is just too tight to slide the 1/2" edge on to 1/2"gatorboard especially if you have a canvas print attached.
If you wanted to go crazy you can miter it with a razor and put it on all 4 sides.
It is a very hard durable pvc and is way better then some of those black or colored edge veneered edging for gatorboard.
« Last Edit: January 24, 2014, 11:30:00 am by Dan Berg »
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huguito

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Re: Mounting to gatorboard
« Reply #37 on: January 24, 2014, 01:07:53 pm »

Hi John

You have any pictures of that treatment to the edges of the gator panels after the prints or the sheets of canvas have been attached to the gator? Or maybe a little more of an explanation of how to do it by steps?

I hate how the laminates I have tried make prints looks foggy and flat, maybe I have tried stuff that was too thick.

So far in canvas I use a spray from Hanhemhule, almost no gloss, just a light spray on 2 coats, seems to make Epson Exhibition satin canvas images nice and deep. Great blacks. I tried to running my fingernails on the front on the print and no marks at al.

For paper, like Ilford Gold Fibre Silk, I just spray a coat or two of the same aerosol cans, I like the look of a paper print mounted to the matt without glass.

Hugo
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Wayne Fox

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Re: Mounting to gatorboard
« Reply #38 on: January 24, 2014, 04:44:37 pm »

We use polymount Dry mount film in a heat press for canvas and prints to gator. 
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jferrari

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Re: Mounting to gatorboard
« Reply #39 on: January 24, 2014, 09:48:12 pm »

How does the gatorboard compare to MightyCore 1/4"?
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