Mounting to gatorboard

[huguito]

I recently got my hands on a old working hot press
I want to try mounting canvas to gatorboard, either with mounting tissue or using miracle muck. Looking for a cheap alternative to stretcher bars

Most of the suppliers I found locally carry Gatorfoam, Is that the same as Gatorboard?

I tried regular foam panels before and they curl when the adhesive dries after a couple of days.
Tried to let it cure between two heavy plywood panels but as soon as I let it stand on its own it curls again inwards towards the print side after few hours.

Hugo

[bill t.]

Gatorfoam and Gatorboard are the same thing.

Gluing works the best.  Gator is very expensive, at about $44 per 4 x 8 foot sheet.  What makes it worth the money is that you can easily glue prints to one side, and it will not warp.  Well, it will warp for about 6 hours after you glue the print, but finally it will flatten out forever.  So when you see that curl just after gluing, don't panic, and don't try to "fix" it, just wait. 

Search "miracle muck" on this forum for an ear full.

All you need is 3/16 inch thick for prints up to 40 x 80 if you are going to frame the piece.  If you plan to wrap the print around the Gator, then use 1/2 inch or thicker, which is pretty expensive and probably will not be normally stocked by your supplier.

If you decide to dry mount, be sure the dry mount pad is still flexible enough, and the platen pressure is correct, otherwise you can crush Gator just like foamcore.

[Paul2660]

Gator brand has a gator on the box.  I have used the original and some knock offs all seem about the same.  

Best way to mount is miracle muck IMO.  

Paul Caldwell

[bill t.]

And if you plan to use glue, use black Gator because it's easier to see how well you've spread the glue, and black Gator is much easier to cut with a utility knife than white Gator.

However, if you are mounting very thin art that is not completely opaque, black Gator may dull down the artwork slightly.  An example would be some of the very thin canvases with polyester (only) substrates.  Lay down a print over some large, high contrast type against white.  If you can see the type don't use black Gator.

The knock-off brand is OK.  It comes 1/4" thick, instead of Gator's 3/16 inch, so I generally don't use it because of issues driving Fletcher point to keep it in frames with shallow rabbets.

[bill t.]

Hey huguito!  If you're in the US Southwest you might want to drop in next Monday through Wednesday at the "West Coast Art and Framing Show" in Las Vegas, Nevada, at the Paris Hotel.  You can see all kinds of display options for prints, canvas stretching machines, heat presses, framing supplies, you name it, it's all there.

http://s19.a2zinc.net/clients/ezhobbypub/wcaf14/public/MainHall.aspx

I'm not going this year, too much hiking involved with those shows.

[huguito]

Should I let the miracle muck cure between two flat boards?

[bill t.]

Should I let the miracle muck cure between two flat boards?

No, don't put any weight on the curving, warped looking print mounted on Gator.  It will straighten out by itself in about 6 to 8 hours.  Just lean in against the wall, or lay it down on a table.  Really!

It will flatten out sooner if you don't use too much glue.  But no matter how much glue you use, it will flatten out eventually.  Worst case is maybe 16 hours, if you slopped on way too much blue.  I usually mount prints in the evening, and then frame them the next morning when they are flat.

Be sure you have a wet paper towel to wipe any glue off the face of the print right away.  It's also best to wipe down the back of Gator when you're done, because little dried dabs of glue there can mess up another print if they're stacked together.  I have not trashed a print during mounting in at least the last 1,000 tries, it's so easy and so fast when you have the technique down.  Also, have a scrap piece of foamcore or matboard or a cut up cardboard box or something like that so you can remove glue from the roller if you apply too much to the Gator.  Press the roller hard against the whatever to squeeze out excess glue.  It's best to pour what you think is too little glue on the Gator, then add more as you start to spread it out with the roller.

[huguito]

Thanks Bill
How do you cut and trim the sheets of batorboard?

[bill t.]

A utility knife.  Get a quick-change handle and change the blade often.  Stanley "1992" utility blades are very well suited for Gator.  A lot of the fancy blades at Lowes and Home Depot are junk.  Buy blades by the 100.

Use one of these cutting mattes.  They last forever, or at least about 2000 large prints, whichever comes first.  Don't worry how bad it looks after a few 100 swipes, and carry on.  The supplier can cut them to size for your table.  They also make a great general purpose working surfaces for framing, print trimming etc.  No prissy little 32x40 cutting mattes, please!  Cover the whole darned table and cut anywhere, anytime.  Table-sized cutting mattes make rotary trimmers look silly.

http://www.cutting-mats.net/custom-mats-nogrid.html

Also get some heavy straightedges.  I have the 64 and 100 inch versions of the on the link.  They weigh enough to stay in position on the art.  Sometimes I gently clamp the art and straightedge together when they are hanging off the end of the table, that way I can easily cut 8 foot wide prints on my poor little 36x80 doorslab-on-folding-table work bench.  The way they show the straightedge being used in the pictures is ridiculous, you'll figure out the right way soon enough.

http://www.cutting-mats.net/pro-safety-straightedges.html

[Justan]

^Thanks for the tip for the rhino cutting mats. I was just looking for something by Olfa (my partner uses this for her sewing) or uline and was lamenting that I couldn’t find a bigger single piece. The rhino guys have a 4x10 piece, which is perfect for my work table. It will be a big and clean improvement over the matt board on top of cardboard I’ve been using.

Sometimes I gently clamp the art and straightedge together when they are hanging off the end of the table

I want to emphasize the term gently to the comment above. For longer pieces I clamp a long aluminum ruler to the work table and use the ruler to hold the work in place, so it doesn’t shift while I’m making a long straight cut. It doesn’t take a lot of pressure with the clamps to cause an imprint in the gator or artwork along the straight edge. Use just enough pressure with the clamps to keep the ruler from slipping.

Btw if you google 2” x 96” aluminum ruler, you should be able to find one for about $20 and a 2” x  72” one for even less.

[bill t.]

And as long as we're being gentle, I should mention that the biggest rooky mistake is putting a lot of body weight on the Gator as by pressing into it with some part of your hand.  It's not that hard to create an expensive dimple that basically trashes the mounted print.

The second biggest rooky mistake is moving the blade away from you and having it unexpectedly snag into the Gator with the tip of the blade.  What can happen then is that your hand continues to slide forward along the stalled knife grip and into the blade edge, cutting the !*#% out of the finger next to your thumb.  Keep a firm grip on the knife at all times, and don't fly too low over the Gator between swipes.  Best to pick a knife with a good guard between the blade and the grip.  Have never done this, thanks a diligent graphic arts mentor long ago who scared me with his scar.

Hot tip...before making any cut, grab an end of the straight edge and while applying whatever hold-down strategy you plan to use, make sure you can't move the straight edge left or right.  Will save a few prints sooner than later.

[Gary Damaskos]

Thanks for this link!

A utility knife.  Get a quick-change handle and change the blade often.  Stanley "1992" utility blades are very well suited for Gator.  A lot of the fancy blades at Lowes and Home Depot are junk.  Buy blades by the 100.

Use one of these cutting mattes.  They last forever, or at least about 2000 large prints, whichever comes first.  Don't worry how bad it looks after a few 100 swipes, and carry on.  The supplier can cut them to size for your table.  They also make a great general purpose working surfaces for framing, print trimming etc.  No prissy little 32x40 cutting mattes, please!  Cover the whole darned table and cut anywhere, anytime.  Table-sized cutting mattes make rotary trimmers look silly.

http://www.cutting-mats.net/custom-mats-nogrid.html

Also get some heavy straightedges.  I have the 64 and 100 inch versions of the on the link.  They weigh enough to stay in position on the art.  Sometimes I gently clamp the art and straightedge together when they are hanging off the end of the table, that way I can easily cut 8 foot wide prints on my poor little 36x80 doorslab-on-folding-table work bench.  The way they show the straightedge being used in the pictures is ridiculous, you'll figure out the right way soon enough.

http://www.cutting-mats.net/pro-safety-straightedges.html

[dgberg]

To add,remember to order your product before winter.
Unless you live in the desert southwest or the Ca. coast.
Raphaels will not ship Miracle Muck in the winter due to the possibility of freezing.
So here I sit still in Jan. and only a pint or so left in the jug.

[Peter McLennan]

Best to pick a knife with a good guard between the blade and the grip.  Have never done this, thanks a diligent graphic arts mentor long ago who scared me with his scar.

Great thread.

Having sliced my "hold-down" hand index finger, I can relate to this caution. 

1) do the linked straightedges provide adequate protection?
2) what knives offer the "good guard between the blade and the grip"  I've never seen one.
3) any experience with matt cutters cutting 1/4" Gator?  It cuts 1/8" foamcore just fine.

[bill t.]

1) do the linked straightedges provide adequate protection?
2) what knives offer the "good guard between the blade and the grip"  I've never seen one.
3) any experience with matt cutters cutting 1/4" Gator?  It cuts 1/8" foamcore just fine.

The straightedges I linked are supposedly designed to protect your fingers.  The problem is, the way they show the straightedge being held down in the picture requires you to be at one end, with the axis of the straightedge pointing towards your body.  Doesn't work for large pieces more than about 30" long.  My presumably unsafe practice is to have the straightedge oriented 90 degrees to my body, and while cutting with my right hand I press down on the upward "wing" extrusion with my left hand, frequently changing positions as I cut the length of a long side. 

I presume this sort of knife is a whole lot safer than this classic sort of knife.  I won't say what type I use, which is unsafe but allows me to press down almost on the top of the blade with the finger next to my thumb, very not recommended but I am old and have practiced doing this stuff as a young man.

Some matte cutters have optional long style blades designed for cutting 8 ply mattes, they might just be able to cut 3/16" Gator, but I can't say conclusively.  My retired Logan matte cutter allowed blades to be mounted somewhat hanging out from the recommended position, which is probably an unsafe thing to do.  So called "media wall cutters" are very good with Gator, and also with matboard, glass, acrylic, and all that stuff.  About $1000+ for a good one, kiss you wall goodbye for displaying prints.

I cut up 4x8 Gator sheets on my meager 36 x 80 table with a 48" drywall t-square.  A few swipes of masking tape on the contact side adds some hold-in-place friction.   For rip-cuts across the 4 foot lenth,  I position the sheet so it's hanging about 1 inch over my side of the table, then cut an 18" swipe towards me being careful not to endanger future generations.  Then I flip the Gator to its other side.  Using the previous 18" cut as I guide, I make another longer cut to part the board.  With Gator, it's OK to make cuts in areas supported only by the air if you gently clamp the straightedge to the Gator, as previously discussed.  Just don't be too aggressive with those air cuts.

[framah]

One more "helpful hint":

Don't try to cut all the way thru in one swipe. The first swipe should cut thru the top layer of the GB, then the next one, thru the foam center, and the last one thru the bottom layer.
This is just as important with the 1/4" stuff as it is with the1/2" stuff.
Take your time and do it right.
Even regular foam core likes to be cut in 2 swipes.

It just makes it easier to stay on line even with a straight edge.

[bill t.]

To continue being helfpul...

If you need clean looking cuts on the sides of your Gator, make a first approximation trim that is about 1/16 to 1/8" out from the position of your final trim.  You will have to apply MUCH less cutting pressure on the final trim cut, and it will usually be cleaner.  Use a fresh blade, don't be cheap!  And as framah says, you needn't feel embarrassed about taking many swipes to make your cut.  If after all those cuts you see a lot of shredding Gator, you're not holding the knife consistently.

There's a problem, though.  The basic art of cutting with a utility knife involves holding the knife perfectly vertical.  HOWEVER, for those fine trim cuts, it is sometimes necessary to tilt the vertical knife orientation very slightly towards you, and rotate the long axis of the kinfe so the angle of the bevel on the cutting edge is parallel to the straightedge.  If you are right handed, the rotation seen from above will be slightly counter-clockwise.  You need need to go from thinking about knife orientation, to thinking about the orientation of the cutting edge bevel on the blade.  You'll see what I mean.  Be careful, because that orientation has a tendency to move the straightedge during the cut.  The tilt only applies to trim cuts.  Practice makes perfect.  Spend some time whittling away at some scarp gator, it will make you a gentler person.

[Peter McLennan]

Superb, boys.  I thank you.

[enduser]

We use these,  http://www.martor.com/condex_203.html?&L=0#information together with this,  http://www.martor.com/condex-guide_rail_207.html?&L=0

It cuts most rigid substrates including 10mm foam board, paper, canvas etc. As with all cutters, keep a sharp blade insatalled.

[Mike Raub]

What adhesive would you Gatorboard experts suggest for inkjet paper? I mounted some photos to what I thought was reasonable quality self-adhesive foam board and they all quickly warped. Glueing wood strips to the back helped take out some of the warp, but they still don't look all that great. I guess I'm going to have to ante up for the good stuff, if I want flat prints. There's a company in Chicago that will cut Gatorboard to the exact size of the print for a fairly reasonable cost. I have a cheapo dry laminator to put some pressure on the print, but I need an adhesive that will give me some time to get the print properly aligned with the board before laminating.

Any suggestions?

Thanks.