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Author Topic: After huge troubles with Phase One 645DF+ system, I need new toys for my backs  (Read 10195 times)

Theodoros

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I would love you are right. But my 28mm went back to Phase One and the only thing they did to it is to tune... the autofocus... They didn't find any other problem. Me seller gave me another 28mm in between and in South Korea, very far away from home, the body totally locked, didn't recognise any lenses (80mm SK, 120 SK) right after having removed the 28mm. I had to remove all batteries, unmount the back, mount again, put again the batteries, no success, remove everything and then after having let the body with nothing on it for 15 minutes, I put back the battery, the back and then it recognized the lenses. I was right in the middle of a shooting with one of most famous Korea painter waiting for me to be ready to continue to shoot the paintings... That was with another 28mm than mine. So I don't know what to think about it except that the P1 28 has a conception issue and that the body has also an issue because it can be severely damaged by a lense issue.

I'm not a studio photographer, I'm a landscape and architecture photographer that makes very long walks sometimes in difficults weather conditions (cold, warm...). I'm not sure that Phase Body and lenses are designed for that and can support that.
ΙΜΟ, makers have gone a long "stupid" path, with all that body/back "communication" BS… I have invested on Contax 645 and will NEVER change… Excuse me, but photographers used to do great pictures without film/body communication, without AF, …even without metering! …All this "modern technology" has nothing to do with photography whatsoever… nothing at all, it only makes equipment far less reliable and aims to make the customer a victim… he'll never take better pictures because of touch screens, larger screens on the back, auto modes, back/body communication or pixel count… He'll make better pictures, if screens are brighter, VFs are interchangeable, suffers less (or better NO) "bugs", has less shortcomings due to automation…. Automation doesn't makes pictures, photographers do! …Did you know that F1 cars have no ABS and no leather seats? ….now who is the STUPID designer that 've put an "S" mode on my Contax, an electronic mirror lock (why not mech?), an AF system, a motor to control aperture although there is an aperture ring (!!!!) and an electronic stop-down button? (why stop-down buttons are build on the body and not on the lens?)
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esox

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Even photography was a stupid invention. Drawing is largely enough.... ;b

So With all what you told about your experiences with the 645+28 P1 lense, and believing your words I did a stupid thing. As the 28mm I have now is a replacement one (mine went to phase one repair) : mounted and unmounted it 10 times without turning off the body. Guess what happened ?

Nothing...

Do you think I should try an exorcist ?
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synn

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Sorry to hear about your troubles, but you've got a dud lens and a meh dealer.
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esox

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Thanks. Yes obvioulsy I've been "very lucky" on this affair.
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bcooter

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esox,

Just because the net is not crawling with a problem doesn't mean your issue isn't legit. 

With my second digital back I had a lot of issues and the maker kept saying, "I never heard of that", though three months later would have a fix.

Sometimes things just happen, but I would strongly suggest with the number of issues you've had is to ship the camera, back and lens to the manufacturer with a note that says "Fix this f_____g thing.

I know with my Contax I had an issue and they'd say well, send us the back and I said, uh no, I'll send you the whole case of bodies, lenses and backs and let your work it out.  If you want to bill me then fine, but don't send them back until everything really works.

That solved all of my problems and stopped the answers like maybe it's your lens, or maybe it's your back, or maybe it's the fact you live on a shaded street.


IMO

BC
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jerome_m

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If the lens is the source of the problem, couldn't the dealer give you another 28mm lens? Try it for a month, mount it and dismount it without switching the body off and see if the body fries. If it does not, your problem is solved.

Why do you have two backs, BTW? There are the most expensive parts of your kit. Bodies are comparatively cheap.
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esox

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My dealer refuses to give me a new lens 9and preferes to refund me the whole bill (including screen, accessories, etc.) wich is stupid. My dealer is stupid. Why two backs ? I need long exposure (P45+) and also some pixels for perspective correction in architecture (P65+). As the whole kit was quite a good price (wich is maybe something I should have been considering a bit more...) I took both backs.
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jerome_m

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Your dealer seems to be a nuisance. Maybe they found out that the deal you got was too good and want the whole system back to sell it for more money?

Anyway, the only likely explanation to your recurrent problems and to the fact that other P1 users mount and dismount their lenses without the body dying is that your 28mm electronics are out of spec. Therefore, the simplest solution to your problem is to get another 28mm lens and ask the dealer for a refund on that specific lens. And find another, more reasonable dealer. Although I should say that my experience with French dealers 20 years ago was very disappointing as well, so maybe you'll need to order in another EU country.

As to long exposures, I don't see the problem. You can always emulate them with multiple exposures.
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torger

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As to long exposures, I don't see the problem. You can always emulate them with multiple exposures.

That increases post-processing work, and for moving subjects it may be complicated (due to the time gaps you get from black frame subtraction, but maybe that can be turned off with the P65+?). From an artistic standpoint one may also prefer to make one exposure rather than merging several, as it may feel more "photographic".
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esox

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Your dealer seems to be a nuisance. Maybe they found out that the deal you got was too good and want the whole system back to sell it for more money?

Anyway, the only likely explanation to your recurrent problems and to the fact that other P1 users mount and dismount their lenses without the body dying is that your 28mm electronics are out of spec. Therefore, the simplest solution to your problem is to get another 28mm lens and ask the dealer for a refund on that specific lens. And find another, more reasonable dealer. Although I should say that my experience with French dealers 20 years ago was very disappointing as well, so maybe you'll need to order in another EU country.

As to long exposures, I don't see the problem. You can always emulate them with multiple exposures.

I think you found exactly the point.

For long exposures the purpose is to do that kind of thing : for architecture images, making desappear people walking on the street, moving cars, pigeons (;b). And for landscape photography, the effect on moving water, sea,etc Also startrails... I had the P45+ 6 month warranty for 5500 euros, less than 20000 shots, the P65+ 7500 euros including 645DF+ and 80mm sk, also 6 month warranty... All the P65+ (used) kits I can fin (sold by professionnal resseller with waranty) is 15000 to 18000 euros...
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synn

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I think you found exactly the point.

For long exposures the purpose is to do that kind of thing : for architecture images, making desappear people walking on the street, moving cars, pigeons (;b). And for landscape photography, the effect on moving water, sea,etc Also startrails... I had the P45+ 6 month warranty for 5500 euros, less than 20000 shots, the P65+ 7500 euros including 645DF+ and 80mm sk, also 6 month warranty... All the P65+ (used) kits I can fin (sold by professionnal resseller with waranty) is 15000 to 18000 euros...

Is there no way you can circumvent the dealer and talk to Phase directly and get a replacement for your lens?
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esox

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I opened a case on P1 support web page, they asked me all serial numbers of bodies and lenses yesterday, since then no news.
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Doug Peterson

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I'd give your dealer and/or phase one more go at getting these issues resolved for you. This gear combo can and should work great!

And if you started a support case at phase one yesterday they HAVE replied by now. If you didn't get an email there is likely a spam issue - just log in to your case on the website and you will see their reply.

esox

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I'd give your dealer and/or phase one more go at getting these issues resolved for you. This gear combo can and should work great!

And if you started a support case at phase one yesterday they HAVE replied by now. If you didn't get an email there is likely a spam issue - just log in to your case on the website and you will see their reply.

I just had the answer of Phase One : they said that effectively they repaired some bodies. That they checked the lense that is "operating under specification", so the issue is my fault, not the fault of the 28mm...

Biiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiip

Excuse my french.

You know Doug, when I was looking for a Phase One system I phoned your shop but as I live in France, you said you could not sell to me. I regret that... At least you seem to be a dealer that feels concerned by his customers. Different philosophy in France and US...
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synn

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I just had the answer of Phase One : they said that effectively they repaired some bodies. That they checked the lense that is "operating under specification", so the issue is my fault, not the fault of the 28mm...

Biiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiip

Excuse my french.

You know Doug, when I was looking for a Phase One system I phoned your shop but as I live in France, you said you could not sell to me. I regret that... At least you seem to be a dealer that feels concerned by his customers. Different philosophy in France and US...

 ask your dealer to demo the lens in front of me under the same situation which fried your cams. If the camera dies, no deal. Back to the factory it goes.
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esox

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Well, my dealer is 800 km away from me... But now that's it, the lawyer in on the desk and he is the one that will communicate with the dealer. I have an insurance, it doesn't cost me a penny.

Back to photography.
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tho_mas

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As far as I know the 47XL is an analog design, the only difference making it digital is that it has had higher precision requirements in manufacturing than its analog counterpart, while the 43 is a true digital design. I own the 47XL and it's one of my favourite lenses on my 33 megapixel back, but I can't say that it reaches the best (in tech camera terms), sometimes there can be some slight chromatic abberation when pixel peeping etc, and at large shifts degradation is noticeable.

Unfortunately I don't know for sure how the 43mm performs in comparison, but I'm quite sure it's noticably sharper in that shifted mode.
I've swapped my 47XL for a 43XL. The 43XL is in fact a tad sharper... but not much.
My 47XL didn't show any CAs (except at f5,6) ... not that I know of. The 43XL of course also shows sharpness falloff at the egdes (a little less falloff than the 47XL ... but again the difference is not really relevant).
Most obvious difference is at f5.6 and f8. The 43XL is as sharp as it gets all over the image circle at f8. The 47XL has to be stopped down to f11.
At f11 the 47 and 43 are very, yery similar.
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julienlanoo

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Esox, you re not the only one hating the 645df, its good if you use it once a month, but All, realy every colleague i have and drink cofee with ( large studios with 15 df's and small studios with one) every one has misary on a more than regular basis with it, i also have the 28 mm mamiya/phase And the 28mm shneider, the shneider is better in terms of sharpness but the build quality is equally bad, the phase/mamiya one even hat its build in suncap comming loose without reason miltiple times.. I just live with it now.. Dont get me wrong the backs are genious!! The body and lenses, that can be done mich better !!
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julienlanoo

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But in france, the phase dealer " prophot" is a fantastic dealer ! They always try to help their clients withbackup bodies! No complaints about prophot !!
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esox

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Except that on thos case, right, they always provided me backup bodies, but they don't want to solve the lense problem. For that they would have to spend some money, and they want me to spend that money. Wich not acceptable, regarding french law, and also ethically speaking. The purchase I did a bit less thatn one year ago as the value of a contract : in exchange of my money, the agdreed to provide me a working and reliable system. And obvioulsy with this perticular lens, the contract is not fulfilled. They have to fulfill it no matter what it costs to them.
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