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Author Topic: Michael's review of H5d60  (Read 27197 times)

EricWHiss

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Re: Michael's review of H5d60
« Reply #40 on: January 16, 2014, 02:44:28 am »

Oops sorry I missed that the thread moved on to vehicles.  With kids I've sold all my fancy cars ... my '59 190sl hurt and *sniff* the Ducati's.  I have nothing to add, except cars with child seats get parked around the block, if you can get a sitter that is.  But then in San Francisco, no one takes cars anyhow, they go in Uber.
« Last Edit: January 16, 2014, 02:48:19 am by EricWHiss »
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design_freak

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Re: Michael's review of H5d60
« Reply #41 on: January 16, 2014, 09:20:31 am »

It's all so sad ...
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TMARK

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Re: Michael's review of H5d60
« Reply #42 on: January 16, 2014, 11:10:05 am »

I think its just color and tonality.

Wait, you can't see that in one there is depth and the other is flat?  How is that related to post processing? 
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Rob C

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Re: Michael's review of H5d60
« Reply #43 on: January 16, 2014, 11:55:03 am »

There's also blown skin in both, so another vote for film, then.

;-)

Rob C

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Re: Michael's review of H5d60
« Reply #44 on: January 16, 2014, 11:59:52 am »

It's all so sad ...


I agree; I should have put my X1/9 into storage the day I bought her, kept her there well-aired and dry, and today, thirty-five or more years later, I'd have a brand new mini-Ferrari exactly of the type that would fit my current life perfectly.

It's not only the lost Hasselblads that waft sad winds my way. That Golden Age is more brilliant the deeper down the mine that I dig.

Rob C
« Last Edit: January 16, 2014, 12:01:32 pm by Rob C »
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jerome_m

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Re: Michael's review of H5d60
« Reply #45 on: January 16, 2014, 12:09:38 pm »

I think its just color and tonality.

Indeed. I tried to use photoshop to adjust the colours of the right-hand picture to the one of the left-hand pictures and then the images are impossible to tell apart.
« Last Edit: January 16, 2014, 12:15:10 pm by jerome_m »
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Misirlou

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Re: Michael's review of H5d60
« Reply #46 on: January 16, 2014, 01:17:46 pm »

Rob, careful what you wish for.

There again it's never been cheaper to buy those lost Hasselblads, which let's face it has got to be better than living in a permanent state of sadness and regret. Why not sell all that digital detritus, buy a Blad, shoot transparency and view on a lightbox?

BTW, I had three of those X19s and I reckon by today's standards they would be classed as a crock of shite that you wouldn't want to be seen dead in.

Back to topic.

I got out my Hassys the other day. I like to exercise them from time to time, but hadn't done so in probably more than a year.

It turns out that apparently I look at the old days through rose colored glasses. Took me quite some time to remember the entire process and sequence for changing film. I'd sort of forgotten how much easier modern digital equipment is to live with.

I got to thinking, what if my film magazines develop light leaks? The repair cost for that alone would probably be a significant percentage of the cost of a new DSLR lens.

Still, there is something very satisfying about looking through a huge Hassy finder, clicking the mechanical exposure controls, etc.
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jerome_m

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Re: Michael's review of H5d60
« Reply #47 on: January 16, 2014, 02:48:28 pm »

I got to thinking, what if my film magazines develop light leaks? The repair cost for that alone would probably be a significant percentage of the cost of a new DSLR lens.

Having changed the foam light seals on RB 67 backs, I can tell you that it is neither expensive not difficult.
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Misirlou

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Re: Michael's review of H5d60
« Reply #48 on: January 16, 2014, 06:55:18 pm »

Having changed the foam light seals on RB 67 backs, I can tell you that it is neither expensive not difficult.

Yes, I believe all my current magazines have seals that I installed myself. But at some point, will it be hard to get replacements? And if my skills eventually prove to be insufficient, then what? I remember doing the seals in my RB-67 myself also, and they were simpler to handle than the Hassy ones (naturally), thought they required more foam.

My memory is fuzzy on another point too. Did Hasselblad officially stop supporting the type of shutters in the original generation of T* lenses some years ago? I'm pretty sure they did. No doubt there will always be someone to fix them, but it's up to each of us to decide when that difficulty and expense becomes too much to justify to keep using the cameras.

I have a 1948 Cessna 140, for which I paid much less than the price of a new H5d60. Oddly enough, it's still cheaper to keep flying than just about anything else out there, regardless of age. Runs fine on unleaded auto fuel, and doesn't even use very much of it. Would that antique cars were that way...
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synn

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Re: Michael's review of H5d60
« Reply #49 on: January 16, 2014, 07:59:26 pm »

Indeed. I tried to use photoshop to adjust the colours of the right-hand picture to the one of the left-hand pictures and then the images are impossible to tell apart.

It's good that your standards are pretty low.
Look at the high quality credo picture on my site and you'll see that it's not just "Color and tonality".

http://www.sandeepmurali.com/p879687852/h1669a012#h1669a012

If you wanna spend 30 minutes on the D800 image trying to get it to 80% of that, feel free.
Did that for 1.5 years. I can live without that.

p.s. Outside this forum, a dozen or so photographers, (i.e. people who shoot portraits and not aperture series and brickwalls) saw both images and could instantly see the difference.
« Last Edit: January 16, 2014, 08:09:06 pm by synn »
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synn

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Re: Michael's review of H5d60
« Reply #50 on: January 16, 2014, 08:01:31 pm »

There's also blown skin in both, so another vote for film, then.

;-)

Rob C

My histogram says you're wrong.
Perhaps you should calibrate your monitor.
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eronald

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Re: Michael's review of H5d60
« Reply #51 on: January 16, 2014, 09:06:32 pm »

My histogram says you're wrong.
Perhaps you should calibrate your monitor.

Synn,

 You may be right. Or not. Next time, could we have similar pix please? Once a model has moved into different light, comparisons are off, and in the pix you showed, the reflections off the dress carried into the environment, changing that too. As for 3d, I instinctivey award that prize to the cup nearest my eyes :)

Edmund
« Last Edit: January 16, 2014, 09:08:05 pm by eronald »
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synn

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Re: Michael's review of H5d60
« Reply #52 on: January 16, 2014, 09:10:53 pm »

Like I said, she was a model at a studio opening doing random poses. There were like, 12 clueless guys trying to shoot her with everything from an iPhone and a Nex 5 with an onboard flash to 1DX and D800s. I was there visiting and to wish him luck and just snapped 4-5 images when the machine gun gang eased off, lol.

I am planning a beauty shoot in 2 weeks time and will try to get similar shots.
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ErikKaffehr

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Re: Michael's review of H5d60
« Reply #53 on: January 16, 2014, 11:09:07 pm »

Hi,

Histogram doesn't say everything, I have downloaded the image you posted here and checked in Chromix Color sync and indeed there is clipping in both red and possibly skin tones. There is less clipping in Adobe RGB but there still some.

So I guess Rob is right, I guess the guy knows about skin tones.

Best regards
Erik


My histogram says you're wrong.
Perhaps you should calibrate your monitor.
« Last Edit: January 16, 2014, 11:13:33 pm by ErikKaffehr »
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ErikKaffehr

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Re: Michael's review of H5d60
« Reply #54 on: January 16, 2014, 11:30:20 pm »

Hi Jerome,

I don't know. The two images have a quite different look.

I am a landscape shooter and I don't feel that the differences between my P45+ and my Sonys blow of my socks. When I compare images from different systems I try to find the same white balance, shooting a grey card in the same light is a good starting point, even if I almost always forget.

Another small point, both you and me use Kodak sensors but the Aptus that Synn uses is has a DALSA sensor, the colour grid arrays are different between Kodak and DALSA.

I checked the image 'Synn' has posted here using ColorThink and there is some clipping in both reds and skin tones that may falsify a comparison.

Best regards
Erik


Indeed. I tried to use photoshop to adjust the colours of the right-hand picture to the one of the left-hand pictures and then the images are impossible to tell apart.
« Last Edit: January 17, 2014, 01:04:07 am by ErikKaffehr »
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synn

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Re: Michael's review of H5d60
« Reply #55 on: January 17, 2014, 12:20:49 am »

Remind me not to post images in the analysis paralysis section again.
I'll do a bar graph next time, I promise.
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ErikKaffehr

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Re: Michael's review of H5d60
« Reply #56 on: January 17, 2014, 01:12:07 am »

Hi,

Good point. Live view and good camera software can help a lot, that is if the camera works for you. I understand the Panasonic works for you.

Best regards
Erik

Michael,

5 years ago the blad focus wouldn't have bothered you a bit, because even full frame 35mm didn't cover that much territory.

But now I get it.  You've been shooting with the olympus which covers 85% of the frame with dead on, light speed accuracy and all of a sudden having to focus and then move a camera seems strange.


IMO

BC
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jerome_m

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Re: Michael's review of H5d60
« Reply #57 on: January 17, 2014, 02:01:39 am »

It's good that your standards are pretty low.

There is no need to be insulting. You presented two pictures with different white balance. That is not sufficient to prove that the two sensors have different qualities, it just proves that one camera's white balance is better calibrated than the other.
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synn

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Re: Michael's review of H5d60
« Reply #58 on: January 17, 2014, 02:25:50 am »

There is no need to be insulting. You presented two pictures with different white balance. That is not sufficient to prove that the two sensors have different qualities, it just proves that one camera's white balance is better calibrated than the other.

It has nothing to do with white balance.
They were both white balanced on the same spot in post (while shot under the same conditions as well).

What actually matters and what you are seeing is that the Nikon's color fidelity is dogshite compared to the Leaf's. Both files are more or less as imported, except for white balance setting and minor tweaks. You spend time editing the Nikon file to bring it close to the Leaf's. What you don't remember is that the Leaf file looked that way on import. It looked "Right". What if I have to shoot another gig with the Nikon? Shoot a reference image with the Leaf and then edit the Nikon to look like it?

Even in your edited file, the Nikon is flatter and the Leaf has dimensionality, BTW.

Furthermore, if you see the images in full quality, at proper resolution, you'll see a LOT more tonal variations in the leaf file that are simply lost in the Nikon file. I've spent enough time and shot enough files with both to know that this is real and not placebo.

And don't forget, you're making your remarks based on what was originally a 207MB TIFF, that was downsampled to 2MB PNG that Facebook eventually murdered into a 200kb-something JPG. If you see a "Blown highlight", call Mark Zuckerberg. My Histogram is just fine.

It's all-too-common for someone to post a comparison on the net, only for 15 different "Well informed" opinions to come out of nowhere about how this should have been done this way and that should have been done that way. Well, here's a simple solution. Get your own back, get your own 35mm DSLR, rent a studio, hire a model, set your own lights, shoot something and prove me wrong. Forgive me for not paying much heed for anything less than that.

I won't even go into the spectrum analysis-paralysis whatever part.
« Last Edit: January 17, 2014, 02:58:19 am by synn »
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Rob C

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Re: Michael's review of H5d60
« Reply #59 on: January 17, 2014, 03:46:04 am »

Synn, you are far too sensitive for this world.

You post images attempting to prove one thing, and when it backfires and you clearly prove the reverse, you blame everyone but yourself, and indulge in childish name-calling... If 'paralysis' is indeed the state in which you truly perceive this part of LuLa to be, whatever induced you to participate?

Or did your opinion change just after your assertion bombed?

We've had far better snappers than you here, attempting to prove one point of view over another; the end result - inevitably - was nobody believed anything they didn't want to believe, that conflicted with their own investments in time and money, and that one fairly accomplished poster was sent packing. Why not simply be happy with what you have and do, and allow the rest of the world to follow its own path?
 
Post all the images of which you are proud, and I'm sure we'll probably all enjoy looking. That's the best anyone can hope to achieve.

Rob C
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