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Author Topic: Michael's review of H5d60  (Read 27219 times)

bcooter

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Re: Michael's review of H5d60
« Reply #20 on: January 14, 2014, 11:41:51 pm »

Really? Can't see that I see any superiority. It's the same old slow single point system that all MF systems have.

Michael

Michael,

5 years ago the blad focus wouldn't have bothered you a bit, because even full frame 35mm didn't cover that much territory.

But now I get it.  You've been shooting with the olympus which covers 85% of the frame with dead on, light speed accuracy and all of a sudden having to focus and then move a camera seems strange.


IMO

BC
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jerome_m

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Re: Michael's review of H5d60
« Reply #21 on: January 15, 2014, 02:14:21 am »

Perhaps I'll do an addendum to Michael's review at some point as I, coincidentally, have been working with an H4D-60 over the last month and a half. But these are the Coles notes thus far:

I use an H3D-II 50 and I more or less agree with your review.

Quote
-- UI is a struggle at first for someone not familiar with the "H" ethos. But it's getting less-so fairly rapidly.  That is, the UI is growing on me. There's actually a lot of fairly powerful functionality hidden in these cameras, and I suspect that the H5 has even more.  It's just a question of figuring it all out. This is a camera that has had me in the manual a lot.

The camera controls are indeed reasonably well set out and do what a photographer needs. The manual is well written and explains modes which I do not use but could be useful (for example, the meter can be set up to display zone system units, etc...) and the buttons can be reconfigured. There is a memory for personal configurations.
What I don't like is the small buttons in the slot between the grip and the camera and the fact that the remote cord plugs there.

Quote
The back UI blows. But it, too, can be made pretty functional with not a huge amount of practice.  One really nice feature is the instant focus confirmation, which allows any of a number of buttons to be programmed to provide a 100% zoom-to of the point of focus during initial review.  This works well, despite the piddly screen resolution.

The screen of the older H3D-II is worse and the even older H3D even more so.
Apparently, the back electronics are a major difference between the H4D and H5D and are much faster. I would have liked to see this point addressed in the review.

Quote
And the files. Wow.  MF finally looks the way I've always hoped MF files to look but have never quite achieved with either my Pentax 645 or D800e.  The files have 'depth' to them. You can bend them into pretzles and they hold.  Two spots under at ISO 200? No problem, it all comes happily back in post.  Want to go hard on the sky with a Clarity brush? No problem, nothing gets crunchy.  And the skin tones.......yup.

The files are impressive and Phocus is a surprisingly good application once one gets to know it. But I would not say that there is so much difference with the D800 as to sensor performance (except higher resolution). The D800 files can be heavily manipulated as well. When I tried the two cameras on the same scene, the differences in sensor appeared to be tiny and mainly due to the post-processing application used.
Where there is a clear difference is, obviously, resolution and base sensitivity.

Where there is another big difference is the lenses. Hasselblad lenses are extremely good. Nikon lenses have been, to me, rather a disappointment (personal taste rather than objective performance).
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synn

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Re: Michael's review of H5d60
« Reply #22 on: January 15, 2014, 02:19:50 am »

Quote
But I would not say that there is so much difference with the D800 as to sensor performance (except higher resolution). The D800 files can be heavily manipulated as well.

It's very important to mention the genre of photography you're talking about when making statements like this, IMO.

Perhaps for landscapes, but the D800 files are no match for my Credo 40 when it comes to tonality for portraiture, as I showed with several examples. In my experience, they are not even a match for night time cityscaping.

I would imagine the case is the same, maybe even more so with the 60MP Hassy back.
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jerome_m

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Re: Michael's review of H5d60
« Reply #23 on: January 15, 2014, 03:22:24 am »

Let us not turn this thread into another D800 - MF comparison, please. We have had enough of these already and the fact that they are still running and fail to come to a definitive conclusion should be an indication that the differences are small enough that showing them is difficult.

If it can be of comfort to you: I prefer by far working with my H3D than with my D800.
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synn

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Re: Michael's review of H5d60
« Reply #24 on: January 15, 2014, 03:45:36 am »

Let us not turn this thread into another D800 - MF comparison, please. We have had enough of these already and the fact that they are still running and fail to come to a definitive conclusion should be an indication that the differences are small enough that showing them is difficult.

If it can be of comfort to you: I prefer by far working with my H3D than with my D800.

It's not about getting consolation/ comfort whatever. I own and use both. I said what I have seen for my style of shooting and I posted the evidence. There are no wars going on; just some facts.



The differences are clearly visible here and they have always been. Nick's post above says the same.

The discussions never die off because some folks refuse to look at images and rather debate numbers, charts and graphs.
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jerome_m

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Re: Michael's review of H5d60
« Reply #25 on: January 15, 2014, 04:09:09 am »

I am sorry, but when I look at the two images of this lovely young Asian lady, I see essentially differences in post processing. The D800 image is visibly more yellow, and not only on skin tones.
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synn

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Re: Michael's review of H5d60
« Reply #26 on: January 15, 2014, 04:21:10 am »

I am sorry, but when I look at the two images of this lovely young Asian lady, I see essentially differences in post processing. The D800 image is visibly more yellow, and not only on skin tones.

Which is the whole point. This is something BC has mentioned a thousand times, but people still don't get it.

in these CMOS DSLR files, color is more "Global". Subtle changes in tonality are lost and everything is quite plasticky. If you see that image at a higher magnification, the differences in skin tonality is even more apparent. Changing the skintones in the D800 file for example, affects the dress as well. Is it possible for the D800 file to be brought closer to the Credo file? Yes. But that requires quite some work including local brushes.

The "Yellowness" that you mention is a Nikon thing, right from the start of their CMOS dates. Nikon skintones are yellower, canon ones are redder. That's how it is. I usually use a color checker to fix this.

The credo file is as it was out of the box.

Ergo; for a portrait shooter, there's no comparison. They are not even on the same planet.

If skintones aren't your thing, here's another example.



This image was debated for a few pages in this forum too.
« Last Edit: January 15, 2014, 04:25:40 am by synn »
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jerome_m

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Re: Michael's review of H5d60
« Reply #27 on: January 15, 2014, 04:52:20 am »

The two night images are obviously different in their colours, but I have no idea why as you did not say how they were processed (or pointed to the thread with the explanations, I feel that we should not turn this thread into another MF versus D800 debate).
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ErikKaffehr

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Re: Michael's review of H5d60
« Reply #28 on: January 15, 2014, 04:53:28 am »

Hi,

Two factors that come to mind are white balance and IR filtering.

I guess many of us shooting MF are landscape photographers and a lot of people shoot architecture, too.

Best regards
Erik

I am sorry, but when I look at the two images of this lovely young Asian lady, I see essentially differences in post processing. The D800 image is visibly more yellow, and not only on skin tones.
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synn

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Re: Michael's review of H5d60
« Reply #29 on: January 15, 2014, 05:01:01 am »

The two night images are obviously different in their colours, but I have no idea why as you did not say how they were processed (or pointed to the thread with the explanations, I feel that we should not turn this thread into another MF versus D800 debate).

I have discussed it all in the previous thread and do not have the energy to regurgitate it again. Please feel free to do a search on my posts.
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ndevlin

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Re: Michael's review of H5d60
« Reply #30 on: January 15, 2014, 08:10:30 am »

I wonder what the difference is between the 50 and the 60.

The 60 is a living testament to my moral, artistic, intellectual and sexual superiority, whereas the 50 is a pedestrian tool for those pretenders of poor taste who seek to ride the coat tails of real MF shooters.

Kind of like the difference between a yellow Lambo valet-parked at Ivy, and a Ferrari on a meter around back.

- N.
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Nick Devlin   @onelittlecamera        ww

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Re: Michael's review of H5d60
« Reply #31 on: January 15, 2014, 08:19:58 am »

I have a Nikonsystem (D4 and 600) with many lenses and I have also a H5D-50 with some lenses. I the meantime I use the Nikon only for shootings where I need speed or the light is bad (high ISO). All the other work I do with the H5D and I must say that I love this cam, and especially the files to work with (had a H4D-40 and H4D-50 before). For me, its day and night. About the high ISO I'm stunning about the sample pictures from Michael. I now, high ISO with the H5D50 ist not bad, but in the pictures from Michael, I see nearly no difference in the noise. And, the 800 ISO pic is looking sharper... What was the Postprocessing on this picture? Yes, I know, the 60er is a Dalsa, not Kodak...).
Rem
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ErikKaffehr

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Re: Michael's review of H5d60
« Reply #32 on: January 15, 2014, 08:20:07 am »

:-)

Erik


The 60 is a living testament to my moral, artistic, intellectual and sexual superiority, whereas the 50 is a pedestrian tool for those pretenders of poor taste who seek to ride the coat tails of real MF shooters.

Kind of like the difference between a yellow Lambo valet-parked at Ivy, and a Ferrari on a meter around back.

- N.
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Erik Kaffehr
 

bcooter

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Re: Michael's review of H5d60
« Reply #33 on: January 15, 2014, 08:32:11 am »

If you'll buy two lunars and put them on the dash, the ivy will valet your car, even if it's a rental Kia.

Actually LA is goofy and everyplace has a pecking order, even in valet.  Obviously tipping well changes everything, but some restaurants would put an AMC Pacer, or flat grey rusted rat rod in front before they did a lambo.

I have this rodded impala, that looks stock, except when you start it dogs bark, babies cry and glass shatters.   That car is always out front, but I think it's because nobody can stand to drive it more than two blocks.

BC
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Rob C

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Re: Michael's review of H5d60
« Reply #34 on: January 15, 2014, 08:42:14 am »

If you'll buy two lunars and put them on the dash, the ivy will valet your car, even if it's a rental Kia.

Actually LA is goofy and everyplace has a pecking order, even in valet.  Obviously tipping well changes everything, but some restaurants would put an AMC Pacer, or flat grey rusted rat rod in front before they did a lambo.

I have this rodded impala, that looks stock, except when you start it dogs bark, babies cry and glass shatters.   That car is always out front, but I think it's because nobody can stand to drive it more than two blocks.

BC


Oh well, we've always suffered for our art.

;-)

Rob C

Joe Towner

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Re: Michael's review of H5d60
« Reply #35 on: January 15, 2014, 01:21:26 pm »

As a H4D-50 owner, I'd love to see some side by side raw images between the H4 and H5 at matching megapixels.  Questions like does the H5D-40 have the same microlenses as the H4D-40 has (as I understand it) should be asked.  In general, is the H5 weather sealing worth just for upgrading on the body side, their 'paired' logic be damned?

I REALLLY hate the hasselblad/hasselbladusa.com sites, you have to pull down a pdf way too often, and a complete lack of information.  I would like to see them try to do some technical camera shots, I mean, that's part of why some folks just look to Phase at this point, as Hasselblad hasn't done a good job of communicating what they can do.  I love the images from my H4, and 50mp is what I needed to have a unique product to sell.
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jerome_m

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Re: Michael's review of H5d60
« Reply #36 on: January 15, 2014, 02:15:06 pm »

As a H4D-50 owner, I'd love to see some side by side raw images between the H4 and H5 at matching megapixels.  Questions like does the H5D-40 have the same microlenses as the H4D-40 has (as I understand it) should be asked.

I think that the two backs use the same sensor and filter array, so the results should be identical. Please consider that, in opposition to what is done with smaller sensor cameras, the backs do not process the pictures. The processing takes place in Phocus. Phocus is regularly updated, which means that even old backs benefits from improvements in processing. I tried to compare an old H3D-31 back to a D800 on this forum some time ago and it gave very good results indeed, even in low light. I suppose it would have been much worse in its early times, but it benefited from improvements in the Phocus software.

If you want to know if a back has microlenses, check its base ISO. Backs with microlenses have a base ISO of 100, versus 50 for backs without microlenses.
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ErikKaffehr

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Re: Michael's review of H5d60
« Reply #37 on: January 15, 2014, 02:25:39 pm »

Hi,

Personally I prefer a small SUV and parking in the Tetons… But that is just me!

Best regards
Erik

If you'll buy two lunars and put them on the dash, the ivy will valet your car, even if it's a rental Kia.

Actually LA is goofy and everyplace has a pecking order, even in valet.  Obviously tipping well changes everything, but some restaurants would put an AMC Pacer, or flat grey rusted rat rod in front before they did a lambo.

I have this rodded impala, that looks stock, except when you start it dogs bark, babies cry and glass shatters.   That car is always out front, but I think it's because nobody can stand to drive it more than two blocks.

BC
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eronald

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Re: Michael's review of H5d60
« Reply #38 on: January 15, 2014, 10:45:14 pm »

If you'll buy two lunars and put them on the dash, the ivy will valet your car, even if it's a rental Kia.

Actually LA is goofy and everyplace has a pecking order, even in valet.  Obviously tipping well changes everything, but some restaurants would put an AMC Pacer, or flat grey rusted rat rod in front before they did a lambo.

I have this rodded impala, that looks stock, except when you start it dogs bark, babies cry and glass shatters.   That car is always out front, but I think it's because nobody can stand to drive it more than two blocks.

BC

I thought LA Ferraris came with a dash-mounted $100 bill dispenser, for rewarding valets and "inflight entertainers".

Edmund
« Last Edit: January 15, 2014, 11:16:56 pm by eronald »
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EricWHiss

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Re: Michael's review of H5d60
« Reply #39 on: January 16, 2014, 02:39:59 am »

I am sorry, but when I look at the two images of this lovely young Asian lady, I see essentially differences in post processing. The D800 image is visibly more yellow, and not only on skin tones.

Wait, you can't see that in one there is depth and the other is flat?  How is that related to post processing? 
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