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Author Topic: Pentax 645D/645NII questions. Some regarding A/FA lenses  (Read 7992 times)

DanielStone

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Pentax 645D/645NII questions. Some regarding A/FA lenses
« on: January 12, 2014, 03:10:44 am »

Hey all,

Ok, done some editing from my original posting, as I agree any potential "rumour mongering" of vaporware(right now?) products isn't productive, nor good to get hopes up...
So, a few more mundane questions:
How are y'all 645D owners holding up? TBH, looking at the specs on it, SD cards don't really inspire confidence in me, where as CF cards(primarily because of their more robust sizing) seem to say "professional tool" more than "this is the same tech as my point & shoot!"

Lenses:
Which ones would you, *experienced* 645D shooters recommend as capable for BOTH FILM AND DIGITAL USE? I prefer FA(autofocus) lenses, but MF only lenses are fine too. Right now lenses would be used on film only, but potentially on the(still deciding if needed) 645D/645DII(vaporware right now) as well. Of course full-frame coverage is required(because I'm using film), but also because of *future* products that *might* require FF coverage as well..
So, I'm looking at the following as a lightweight, travel kit:
Pentax 645NII body(possibly 2 bodies, since no interchangeable backs like HB or Mamiya)
45mm   FA
75mm   FA
150mm FA

A kit small enough to pack/stow away and not take up much room, as I'm changing up line of work in a month or so and quarters will be more compacted than they are now.
Subject matter will vary, nothing super repetitive. Zooms are nice, but fast, light(er) weight no-nonsense primes are my preference...e f

Lens adapters for V-series lenses:
Any words of wisdom on this topic? I like the "Zeiss bite" that my HB transparencies have, Pentax 645 lenses are great, but slightly lower in contrast to my eye. Smoother, but I like a bit of contrast in the film. HB almost always delivered film like what I wanted to see in the film w/o much(if any) post work.

thx,
Dan

Hi, I really think that speculations like "is it coming?" or "any rumours heard?" should be avoided… It's different to express an opinion on what a makers line may need (or one that uses it may need) and discuss it with other people that may have spot the same or other and its again different if people start talking on replacements of equipment.

As far as lenses are concerned, I use Contax 645 with MFDB, which is a camera that uses focal plane shutter and is of 6x4.5 image circle, much like the Pentax is. I do have all the dedicated lenses but one (the 350) that Contax ever did, but I have used many other lenses via widely available adapters from 6x6 format. Next to Zeiss for the Hass-V and F which are all fully operative on your camera), I particularly recommend the 40mm, the 120m and the 180mm on their later versions, there where some beautiful lenses made for the Exacta 66/P6 mount… and although the east German CZJ series can have big variations between available lenses for QC issues (especially the WAs), the W.German Schneiders that where dedicated for the Exacta 66 where su-pe-rb lenses by any standard.

thx, please see my edited topic(s) above. I agree, "rumours" are not good to talk about, even when it comes to camera equipment :D
« Last Edit: January 12, 2014, 05:30:34 am by DanielStone »
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ErikKaffehr

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Re: Pentax 645DII, is it coming? Also have a few questions on A/FA lenses
« Reply #1 on: January 12, 2014, 03:33:59 am »

Hi,

I don't know about 645DII coming, that is really a business decision to be made at Hoya.

Regarding the lenses, Diglloyd has tested almost all lenses here: http://www.diglloyd.com/index-dap.html#Pentax645D

Diglloyd is a pay site (49.99 for the DAP site), but may be worth it.

Best regards
Erik

Hey all,
Has anyone heard any news on the (still rumored, albeit somewhat quiet as of late) Pentax 645DII?

Also, on lenses:
Which ones would you, *experienced* 645D shooters recommend as capable for BOTH FILM AND DIGITAL USE? I prefer FA(autofocus) lenses, but MF only lenses are fine too. Right now lenses would be on film only, but potentially on the 645D/645DII as well. Of course full-frame coverage is required(because I'm using film).

thx,
Dan


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Erik Kaffehr
 

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Re: Pentax 645DII, is it coming? Also have a few questions on A/FA lenses
« Reply #2 on: January 12, 2014, 04:07:52 am »

Hey all,
Has anyone heard any news on the (still rumored, albeit somewhat quiet as of late) Pentax 645DII?

Also, on lenses:
Which ones would you, *experienced* 645D shooters recommend as capable for BOTH FILM AND DIGITAL USE? I prefer FA(autofocus) lenses, but MF only lenses are fine too. Right now lenses would be on film only, but potentially on the 645D/645DII as well. Of course full-frame coverage is required(because I'm using film).

thx,
Dan


Hi, I really think that speculations like "is it coming?" or "any rumours heard?" should be avoided… It's different to express an opinion on what a makers line may need (or one that uses it may need) and discuss it with other people that may have spot the same or other and its again different if people start talking on replacements of equipment.

As far as lenses are concerned, I use Contax 645 with MFDB, which is a camera that uses focal plane shutter and is of 6x4.5 image circle, much like the Pentax is. I do have all the dedicated lenses but one (the 350) that Contax ever did, but I have used many other lenses via widely available adapters from 6x6 format. Next to Zeiss for the Hass-V and F which are all fully operative on your camera), I particularly recommend the 40mm, the 120m and the 180mm on their later versions, there where some beautiful lenses made for the Exacta 66/P6 mount… and although the east German CZJ series can have big variations between available lenses for QC issues (especially the WAs), the W.German Schneiders that where dedicated for the Exacta 66 where su-pe-rb lenses by any standard.
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ndevlin

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Re: Pentax 645D/645NII questions. Some regarding A/FA lenses
« Reply #3 on: January 12, 2014, 08:42:14 am »


Hi Daniel,

Perhaps my first hand experience can be of use.  I had, but ultimately sold, the 645D.  I waited and lusted for this camera as an affordable entree into MFD. In many ways, it was.  Its biggest selling point was the handling. The UI is better than any other MF camera by order of magnitude, and it is simply fun and easy to use.

The "SD" card issue was an issue for me too...for about five seconds.  I still much prefer the physical form factor of CF cards, but my Sandisk Extreme IVs have been rock solid and cost little for 32 and 64 GBs.  Their real advantage lies in the ease of transfer to the computer, since most people's travel machines will now have built-in SD ports.  The benefits of not having to carry a CF card reader are not insubstantial.

Lenses: I paid a laughable price for a slightly dinging 75mm f2.8, which turned out to be the sharpest lens on the system. Small and brilliant.  I also test the 45mm extensively, and it is an irredeemable piece of junk. This saddened me, bc the focal length and size were just right. But it is a mediocre lens. The 150mm I hardly ever used because my 80-160 covered that range and was strong at all focal lengths up to 150mm. But the 150mm is a nice, fast, underpriced lens.  I'd own it again.

But why did I sell? At the end of the day I simply had too much trouble getting the full potential put of the sensor in landscape work, for two reasons.   First, my images were often degraded ever-so-slightly for some reason that I ultimately chalked-up to first-curtain shutter vibration.  It opens like a guillotine. The Mamiya has the same problem.  A friend who used to work for a major MF company told me that I was not wrong about this, and implied it was something he had tested and proven on a number of MF cameras.

Second, the 645D had issues focusing accurately with middle distance landscape subjects. Lloyd Chambers has talked about this issue with a number of cameras, and attributes it to a lack of sufficient focus-step refinement in the lenses. Since I only used legacy Pentax AF glass, this made sense.  It was not a universal problem, but occurred with sufficient frequency to put me off.

Ironically, the 645D gave me the best results in studio, under flash. There it was pure brilliance. But it cannot tether, which is something most people who shoot in studio with MF need, increasingly including me (I tried an Eye-Fi solution that almost worked, but not worth the hassle).

Lastly, I test the camera against the D800E, and the difference was too small to justify keeping the system.  IN particular, the price of the new lenses is WAY too high.

I now have an H4D-60, which I got a couple of years down the line for not much more than the price of the 645D new. Ouch.  It is perfect on focus and has no shutter issues (obviously) and is finally giving me what I have sought from MF in file quality all along.   

I LOVE Pentax cameras and the company, and wish they were killing it, but that's my tale.  If a second 645D comes along, it will definitely be worth a look.  But I place little credence in the wish-talk that buzzes around on the subject.

Others have kept and enjoy their 645Ds very much, so my experience is by no means universal or meant to disparage their views.  You should probably try it for yourself.

Cheers,

- N.   
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Nick Devlin   @onelittlecamera        ww

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Re: Pentax 645D/645NII questions. Some regarding A/FA lenses
« Reply #4 on: January 12, 2014, 03:01:39 pm »

I use my 645D in two ways: on a tripod with lenses stopped well down; and handheld for portraits with the 150mm, usually wide open or at f/4. I'd agree with prior comments about the 45mm...not one of Pentax's better designs and one of the few lenses I've ever returned after buying. (I tried two of 'em, both bleh.)  :o  My basic lens rig is 35/75/150. I also sometimes use the newer 55mm (mainly for stitched composites) and less often the 120/4 macro. All five lenses are IMO very good with the 35 and 75 well into excellent territory. I'm not much of a pixel peeper, prefering instead to make prints—typically 15x20"s—and evaluate them. I owned a 645NII in the early 2000s and enjoyed using it for about five years before selling it to a friend (I kept the lenses!).

SD cards...not an issue for me. Actually every digicam I currently own uses 'em! Early on I had one fail after accidentally running it through the washing machine (the card was empty). I also had a CF card go belly-up c. 2002. No glitches or failures since then.

-Dave-
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ErikKaffehr

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Re: Pentax 645D/645NII questions. Some regarding A/FA lenses
« Reply #5 on: January 12, 2014, 03:57:09 pm »

Hi,

I love SD-cards since I learned that the most frequent repairs on DSLRs are ben CF-card pins. But I have never had a problem with either CF or SD cards.

Best regards
Erik

I use my 645D in two ways: on a tripod with lenses stopped well down; and handheld for portraits with the 150mm, usually wide open or at f/4. I'd agree with prior comments about the 45mm...not one of Pentax's better designs and one of the few lenses I've ever returned after buying. (I tried two of 'em, both bleh.)  :o  My basic lens rig is 35/75/150. I also sometimes use the newer 55mm (mainly for stitched composites) and less often the 120/4 macro. All five lenses are IMO very good with the 35 and 75 well into excellent territory. I'm not much of a pixel peeper, prefering instead to make prints—typically 15x20"s—and evaluate them. I owned a 645NII in the early 2000s and enjoyed using it for about five years before selling it to a friend (I kept the lenses!).

SD cards...not an issue for me. Actually every digicam I currently own uses 'em! Early on I had one fail after accidentally running it through the washing machine (the card was empty). I also had a CF card go belly-up c. 2002. No glitches or failures since then.

-Dave-
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Erik Kaffehr
 

larkis

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Re: Pentax 645D/645NII questions. Some regarding A/FA lenses
« Reply #6 on: January 13, 2014, 08:58:28 pm »

I still shoot with my 645D but agree with a lot of what Nick is saying. There are instances where the auto focusing does not quite catch and the image is not as razor sharp as it should be. I have purchased an A7R recently and the image quality is very close to the 645D in many situations but I still trust the 645D more in tougher situations. For one, using the 645D with thick gloves on is a lot more comfortable and I can actually get better sharpness at 1/125th of a second hand held due to the cameras size and weight. The thing about tiny cameras is that they don't dampen small hand jitters and I find them actually less stable (the a7r does not have in body stabilization). I'm taking both the 645D and the a7R to antarctica in a couple of weeks so I will see how both cameras perform there. At this point the 645D has been with me to a bunch of places and I know when it shines and when it doesn't.

Secondly I prefer the 4:3 aspect ratio for doing prints. This could be a non issue for many but I prefer 4:3 especially for vertical compositions and portraits.

Unfortunately I find the pentax/ricoh marketing and user communication approach lame. They come off more like a hobby brand and don't leave their users with a lot of confidence in their products. Who at the moment would feel good about spending 5k on a 645D lens without knowing where the system is heading ? I was going to purchase the 90mm but without knowing where the system is going I rather wait it out. If they announce a 60mp or 80mp body I will surely purchase it and the 90mm with it.

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Re: Pentax 645D/645NII questions. Some regarding A/FA lenses
« Reply #7 on: February 07, 2014, 04:00:06 pm »

I'm not sure if this is the correct forum for my post but... Looks like Ricoh is close to announcing the 645D II. Looks promising.
http://www.dpreview.com/news/2014/02/05/ricoh-promises-reference-products-including-cmos-645d-at-cp?utm_campaign=internal-link&utm_source=news-list&utm_medium=text&ref=title_0_12
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Royce Howland

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Re: Pentax 645D/645NII questions. Some regarding A/FA lenses
« Reply #8 on: February 07, 2014, 07:15:39 pm »

How are y'all 645D owners holding up?

I think most of us are holding up okay. :) Speaking for myself, I'm holding up very well! I've been shooting the 645D for a bit over 3 years so far, and I've found it suits my needs, temperament and style quite well. It's not a perfect system, nothing is. But I've found little about it to criticize, especially in regard to the final images I produce with it for others to see. In the areas where it did leave something to be desired, I've been able to work around it for the most part, and work the limitations into the style when I couldn't work around them. :) I'm hopeful that the 645D II (or whatever it's to be called), which is now rapidly exiting rumour status, will address most of the improvements I was hoping for.

Quote
TBH, looking at the specs on it, SD cards don't really inspire confidence in me, where as CF cards(primarily because of their more robust sizing) seem to say "professional tool" more than "this is the same tech as my point & shoot!"

Performance of the fastest SD cards is not up to the fastest CF cards, but that's been irrelevant up to now for shooting, because the 645D is no speed demon anyway. It's perhaps somewhat relevant for downloading to the computer after shooting, but download speed hasn't been a concern for me. We'll see what happens with the 645D II, but I have no objections on SD cards so far. I'll also note that nobody whose opinion of my professionalism I care about, has ever had cause to remark on my use of a camera equipped with SD cards. :)

Quote
Lenses:
Which ones would you, *experienced* 645D shooters recommend as capable for BOTH FILM AND DIGITAL USE? I prefer FA(autofocus) lenses, but MF only lenses are fine too. Right now lenses would be used on film only, but potentially on the(still deciding if needed) 645D/645DII(vaporware right now) as well. Of course full-frame coverage is required(because I'm using film), but also because of *future* products that *might* require FF coverage as well..
So, I'm looking at the following as a lightweight, travel kit:
Pentax 645NII body(possibly 2 bodies, since no interchangeable backs like HB or Mamiya)
45mm   FA
75mm   FA
150mm FA

The FA 75mm and 150mm are both good choices for lightweight travel kit. The FA 45mm is not a great lens; I briefly looked at one on my 645D and got rid of the lens right away. Unfortunately the next choices are to go up to 55mm or down to 35mm, which may be awkward for your chosen way of seeing. If you were to have a single zoom, I could say the FA 45-85mm would be the one. It's larger & heavier than the nearby primes for sure, but it's a good optic covering what I've found to be a very useful focal range. I use this zoom more than just about all my other lenses combined. My next most commonly used lens is probably the FA 150-300mm. For a travel kit I often take those two zooms, either the new DFA 25mm or older FA 35mm for when I need something much wider, and the FA 75mm for a faster, lighter lens for just walking around the streets.

I've been shooting the digital 645 only up to this point, so all my lenses are held against the capability of that 40MP CCD sensor. I shoot both on the tripod at base ISO for exacting detail, and also handheld at higher ISO for dynamic stuff like street work. The lenses I use have mostly supported my shooting styles okay, though on occasion it would have been nice to have something like 3 stop stabilization to help out.

Ironically, in a move that reverses what most people have done, I recently acquired a 645NII to begin shooting B&W film for the first time ever. I've no doubt all the lenses I like on the 645D will prove equally useful on full frame film, though of course with different fields of view.

Quote
Lens adapters for V-series lenses:

I can't speak to adapting other system lenses to the Pentax 645.

Now, a couple of notes of follow up to Nick Devlin's experience report. My experience is kind of an alternative book-end to his. After checking out the 645D and dipping my toe in the water with it for some time, I went all-in with it. As I said above, it suits me to a tee. So much so that when I blew the shutter of my first 645D somewhere a bit past 50,000 actuations, I actually acquired Nick's 645D as a 2nd body. I also took his FA 150-300mm off his hands. So his decision to migrate onto the Nikon D800 platform was to my benefit, as I decided to double down on the Pentax. :)

I agree with him 100% that the Pentax digital MF system is fun and easy to use. I've used and abused mine in all kinds of circumstances and really can't complain about much of anything. I recognize what Nick says about the 2 main challenges he had, but I have not had those same issues, or not to an extent that I can't compensate for them. And compensating for them has become habit and straight forward enough that it wasn't worth looking back at a 35mm platform again. (I came from Canon DSLR's before the Pentax 645D.) Though I happen to think a Sony a7R with select lenses from my Canon 35mm kit and a few others, could be an interesting lighter weight combo. But I digress.

First curtain shutter shake can be an issue with the 645D, and I was hoping for electronic first curtain with the 645D II. It's too early to say if we're going to get it or not. But even if not, I find it's only with certain combinations of focal length and shutter speed, and knowing what those combo's are I can avoid it in a straight forward way most of the time. The worst case situation is with long heavy telephoto lenses tripod-mounted; then I use a rail that QR-clamps to the camera with a 2nd mount point bracing the front of the lens. That seems to work, but it's less convenient to set up. I've rarely missed image quality in terms of sharpness, except when I was happy enough to miss it as a stylistic choice.

Autofocus accuracy has not been an issue for me. I don't use AF a lot, but when I do the thing I've found interesting is that the 645D seems to own focus much better than my Canon 5D series cameras did. And the 645D can do it in very low lighting conditions. This, with a first-gen MF digital body whose AF system was mostly cobbled together from the Pentax APC-C 35mm body of the day and the legacy screw-drive system used by the FA 645 lenses. When I've wanted to use AF with my 645D, I've found it remarkably dependable for my needs. For most of my landscape stuff, I focus manually. This will become easier with the presumable Live View functionality on the new 645D II. But I can see the point about there perhaps not being enough stepping points in the legacy AF system to support fine focus on mid-range subjects. There may be no way to deal with that until enough new ultrasonic motor 645 lenses are on the market. But as Nick points out, these new lenses are drastically more expensive than the old legacy lenses, so the increased precision will come at a price.

To sum it up, I'm very happy I tried the Pentax experiment back in 2010 and glad I stuck with it up to now. And I'm fairly eager to see what the 645D II will add to the equation. I've told my local shop that if my phone # isn't the first one called when they have anything tangible in hand on the 645D II, there had better be a good reason why not... like the end of civilization or something similar. :)

Jason Denning

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Re: Pentax 645D/645NII questions. Some regarding A/FA lenses
« Reply #9 on: February 07, 2014, 09:16:52 pm »

SD cards are fine, if you get a sand disk one its waterproof!
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tsjanik

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Re: Pentax 645D/645NII questions. Some regarding A/FA lenses
« Reply #10 on: February 08, 2014, 09:44:08 am »

Dan:

If you're confining yourself to film at this point, this system you listed will be very inexpensive for medium format and easy to resell at little cost to you should decide to do so.  I agree with the comments on the 45mm; I sold mine too, but I am aware of at least one person who likes his :)
I've been using the 645D since December 2010 and continue to be very pleased with the system.  My thoughts are essentially the same as those Royce posted.
I prefer to use manual focus, but when I use AF I have had no problems after switching to single focus point mode. I find the pattern AF unpredictable.  An example using AF with the 400mm FA handheld.  The focus was fast and accurate.


20120818_1515 by tsjanik47, on Flickr

I find shutter shake to be a problem only at slow speeds and when using a telephoto lens that requires mounting the lens and not the body to the tripod, i.e. the 300, 400 and 600mm lens.  I have a rail I use with long lenses that sounds similar to that Royce described.  I also add a Manfrotto long lens support if I'm really concerned.




_IGP1179 by tsjanik47, on Flickr

Since the 645DII is arriving, you may be able to get a 645D at a bargain price.

Tom

« Last Edit: February 08, 2014, 09:53:58 am by tsjanik »
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hsteeves

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to tsjanik, re your lens support system
« Reply #11 on: February 14, 2014, 08:40:31 am »

hello,

nice 645d/lens combo.  If I may ask, what are the pieces you used to construct it?
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tsjanik

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Re: to tsjanik, re your lens support system
« Reply #12 on: February 15, 2014, 08:58:13 am »

hello,

nice 645d/lens combo.  If I may ask, what are the pieces you used to construct it?

pm sent
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bcroslin

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Re: Pentax 645D/645NII questions. Some regarding A/FA lenses
« Reply #13 on: February 15, 2014, 01:48:04 pm »

SD cards are fine, if you get a sand disk one its waterproof!

The nice thing about using SD cards with the 645D is that you can tether wirelessly to an iPad with an EyeFi card.
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Bob Croslin, Photographer
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