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Author Topic: Printers don't print larger than 30/40''  (Read 1603 times)

sanfairyanne

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Printers don't print larger than 30/40''
« on: January 10, 2014, 02:12:50 pm »

Ok so this is a hypothetical question because I don't have a MF camera but I do see a time when I might consider one, especially if Canon bring something out later this year.

The closest quality printer to me - there are very few - uses the Chromera printer but they only print to a maximum of 40/30''. I'm in the Uk and the only other places I can think of would be printers in London which isn't really practical. So I'm left to wonder will I ever benefit from having a MF back. Other than of course being able to crop, and I guess a 40/30 print shot with a 40 megapixel MF back is superior to the same print shot with say a 5D2.

So can anyone ''sell me on the idea''.

Many thanks I hope I'm asking a valid question.
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jerome_m

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Re: Printers don't print larger than 30/40''
« Reply #1 on: January 10, 2014, 02:29:59 pm »

Quite frankly, 40" (101cm) on a good printer is already going to need more resolution than what a D800/A7r can output if one looks close enough. 40" at 300dpi is 12000 pixels. Even the 80 mpix MF backs are only 7760 pixels high, so filling a 40" high landscape print will only be 194 dpi.

The largest fine art printers available print 64" wide, BTW (163cm). And nothing but money prevents assembling parallel bands of a picture next to one other on a flat wall.
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craigrudlin

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Re: Printers don't print larger than 30/40''
« Reply #2 on: January 10, 2014, 03:04:27 pm »

There is more to MF than merely the megapixels and potential print size.

The size of the pixel "wells", the type of sensor (eg ccd vs cmos), the way the information is processed
in the camera (even for raw), the type of lenses (eg leica S, Phase One, etc), all create a different "draw"
to the image than achieved from 35mm format.  There is a three dimensionality of micro-contrast, texture,
feel that is visible from MF that is lacking from, for example, the D800E.  Can you achieve a similar look from
the D800E-- perhaps with much post-processing, but it is still not the same -- and I have both a Leica S and a D800E.
I will be the first to also admit that the difference may be the lenses even more than the sensors, but that doesn't
change the conclusion only the explanation.

As to printer size, also remember that there are differences in the types and compositions of ink, the way it is
laid down (I was amazed to learn of the math involved in depositing the various colors of ink to create a "dot" -- even
the order in which the colors are "mixed".  I have a Canon ipf8300 and the inks are quite different from the consumer
models and even other pro levels -- again, different "draws."

Also, it is my impression-- and that is what it is, not scientific fact -- that the files from the MF (eg my Leica S) upsize
better than those from MF (eg D800E).  You can easily upsize the file to 40 inch prints that look fantastic (at least
on my Canon ipf8300).

There is certainly a reason to make such large prints-- besides perhaps what your customer requires.  It is that certain images
need to be large, to engage the viewer, to allow the viewer to "walk into" or become part of the image.  Some images lose
their impact when presented in a small size .  (And, truthfully, vice versa as well.)

Hope this helps.
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sanfairyanne

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Re: Printers don't print larger than 30/40''
« Reply #3 on: January 10, 2014, 03:42:06 pm »

Thanks for your replies, I don't wish to add anything purely because I'm an uneducated 5D2 user so I just want to say keep the advice flowing.
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vjbelle

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Re: Printers don't print larger than 30/40''
« Reply #4 on: January 10, 2014, 04:37:44 pm »

Quite frankly, 40" (101cm) on a good printer is already going to need more resolution than what a D800/A7r can output if one looks close enough. 40" at 300dpi is 12000 pixels. Even the 80 mpix MF backs are only 7760 pixels high, so filling a 40" high landscape print will only be 194 dpi.

The largest fine art printers available print 64" wide, BTW (163cm). And nothing but money prevents assembling parallel bands of a picture next to one other on a flat wall.

Who prints 40 inches high??  I sure don't.... Do you?  I print all day long 40 inches wide on my 9900 from my IQ180 images.  Given the right image circumstances a 36mp image will stand up to close scrutiny...

Victor
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Hening Bettermann

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Re: Printers don't print larger than 30/40''
« Reply #5 on: January 10, 2014, 04:39:31 pm »

Bart van der Wolf offers a free online tool, which is actually designed to calculate depth of field, but can also be used to calculate the sensor resolution required for a defined print quality.

http://bvdwolf.home.xs4all.nl/main/foto/dofplan/dofplan.html

Good light!

Wayne Fox

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Re: Printers don't print larger than 30/40''
« Reply #6 on: January 10, 2014, 05:18:22 pm »

Who prints 40 inches high??  I sure don't.... Do you?  I print all day long 40 inches wide on my 9900 from my IQ180 images.  Given the right image circumstances a 36mp image will stand up to close scrutiny...

Victor

i do all the time, my stores 11880 is busy 6 to 8 hours a day.  I don’t like small prints, and I don’t like soft pixelated large prints. I have printed out many 30” by 90” panos with my chromira, and larger on the 11880 (60” wide).  Not many of those files actually held up very well, but if the customer wants to buy it, so be it.  However, I have printed many of my files out very large and they hold up very well.

your statement “Given the right image circumstances” influences me quite a bit.  Most of the time you can’t predict those circumstances.  The only way you can be sure is to use the right equipment and get the best resolution you can using the best device and glass with the best technique.  Sometimes you shoot something and you just know it’s going to be great, other times you get surprised.  I don’t like being being surprised when all I had with my was my Canon s95.
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tho_mas

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Re: Printers don't print larger than 30/40''
« Reply #7 on: January 10, 2014, 05:23:01 pm »

The closest quality printer to me - there are very few - uses the Chromera printer but they only print to a maximum of 40/30''.
Are you referring to the Chromira Printer? I am printing on such a machine and on the short side the max. lenth is 120cm (47'') ... on the long side as long as the paper roll is.

I guess a 40/30 print shot with a 40 megapixel MF back is superior to the same print shot with say a 5D2.
for printing large more megapixels are of course preferable. Question is how to achieve the increment of resolution. Basically you could just as well stitch multiple exposures with a lower res sensor ... if the scene is appropriate to do stitching. But a sensor with more pixels of course may get your there in a single shot.
Another way to print large is to upres the files. I would say uprezzing looks much, much better with a really sharp file than with a softer file.
The "larger" pixels on a 39, 40 or 60MP Digiback together with decent MF lenses are sure capable of producing such sharp files (good capture technique provided).

I use an old P45 (non plus, 39MP) and shoot it on a Contax and on a tech cam. I do single shots with the Contax, pano stitched shots with the Contax, single shots with the tech cam and flat stiteched shots with the tech cam. I've also just acquired a little Sony A7R for pano stitching when I feel the ISO50 of my P45 is limiting. I do print them all at 120cm (~47'') on the short side - even slightly cropped single shots captured with the Contax. Sure you'll see a higher amount of fine details on the stitched shots ... but when you see the images hanging on a wall side by side they all fit together really nicely.

A high end art print at 40x30'' is easy for a well captured 40 MP MFD file (good post processing provided) ... then again resolution wise 40x30'' is also easy for the Sony A7R (Nikon D800e) if you use the appropriate lenses.

Who prints 40 inches high?? 
I do.
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jerome_m

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Re: Printers don't print larger than 30/40''
« Reply #8 on: January 10, 2014, 05:33:28 pm »

Who prints 40 inches high??

Andreas Gursky comes to mind.
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