Poll

Do you save your originals as DNG or RAW?

DNG
- 22 (26.8%)
RAW
- 60 (73.2%)

Total Members Voted: 81


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Author Topic: DNG or RAW  (Read 25564 times)

rgs

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DNG or RAW
« on: December 29, 2013, 08:57:05 AM »

This question is about DNG or RAW for original camera files. Which format is your choice and why. I'm really more interested in your answers than in the poll but thought it might be interesting o see numbers. I usually don't save JPEG (unless it's the only thing available) and scanner files are TIFF. Files edited in PS are either TIFF or PSD.

digitaldog

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Re: DNG or RAW
« Reply #1 on: December 29, 2013, 09:19:46 AM »

Opening up a big can of worms here  ;D

Here are a few reasons I use DNG:
http://www.ppmag.com/reviews/200709_adobedng.pdf
The format since this article has evolved with more functionality (ability to embed DNG profiles in container, Lossy DNG, Fast Load Previews etc). But biggest reason, it's not a proprietary file format.
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Andrew Rodney
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jrsforums

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Re: DNG or RAW
« Reply #2 on: December 29, 2013, 10:58:02 AM »

Please not again....it is a can of "worms"

Please search for prior, quite vociferous discussions....
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John

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Re: DNG or RAW
« Reply #3 on: December 29, 2013, 11:35:44 AM »

This question is about DNG or RAW for original camera files. Which format is your choice and why.
just don't mix the archival with the workflow (and both with the argument about whether manufactureres shall use DNG or not for in camera raws)... for archival purposes even Adobe's people were on record that they save the original raws /which might be already DNGs for some minority camera makers/ in the form that camera's firmware produced them...  but we have some people here trying to be more popish than the pope  ;)
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ErikKaffehr

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Re: DNG or RAW
« Reply #4 on: December 29, 2013, 11:43:03 AM »

Hi,

Difficult to foresee the future is…

- It is possible to embed the original raw file in DNG, so you can have it both ways.
- Some raw converters support DNG not at all or half heartedly.
- Some raw converters support DNG but not all raw files.

Personally, I feel that all these raw formats are a bad idea and make the community a disservice.

Best regards
Erik



This question is about DNG or RAW for original camera files. Which format is your choice and why. I'm really more interested in your answers than in the poll but thought it might be interesting o see numbers. I usually don't save JPEG (unless it's the only thing available) and scanner files are TIFF. Files edited in PS are either TIFF or PSD.

Tony Jay

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Re: DNG or RAW
« Reply #5 on: December 29, 2013, 05:17:54 PM »

Sadly, this is a scenario where philosophy and practicality are in opposition.

Tony Jay
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PeterAit

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Re: DNG or RAW
« Reply #6 on: December 30, 2013, 10:31:56 AM »

Well, you really cannot save your "originals" as DNG, can you? AFAIK, no camera produces DNG files - it's always the camera maker's RAW format. Yes, Lightroom and other software can convert to DNG, but then it's been converted and IS NO LONGER THE ORIGINAL.
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Peter
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Manoli

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Re: DNG or RAW
« Reply #7 on: December 30, 2013, 10:54:57 AM »

Well, you really cannot save your "originals" as DNG, can you?

Leica 'native' RAW format is DNG. There may be others.
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john beardsworth

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Re: DNG or RAW
« Reply #8 on: December 30, 2013, 11:49:42 AM »

Pentax too. And Hasselblad.

thierrylegros396

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Re: DNG or RAW
« Reply #9 on: December 30, 2013, 11:51:03 AM »

Yes Peter, there are now some other manufacturers that propose to save to DNG format !

Another example is Nokia Lumia 1520.

But that's sadly a minority.
« Last Edit: December 30, 2013, 12:47:07 PM by thierrylegros396 »
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digitaldog

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Re: DNG or RAW
« Reply #10 on: December 30, 2013, 11:52:50 AM »

Leica 'native' RAW format is DNG. There may be others.

Here's a start in terms of a list:
http://www.barrypearson.co.uk/articles/dng/products_cameras.htm
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Andrew Rodney
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mouse

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Re: DNG or RAW
« Reply #11 on: December 30, 2013, 07:38:45 PM »

Yes, Lightroom and other software can convert to DNG, but then it's been converted and IS NO LONGER THE ORIGINAL.

I am aware that a DNG contains metadata that may not be present in the original, but in what ways does the per pixel content differ from the original?
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Tony Jay

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Re: DNG or RAW
« Reply #12 on: December 30, 2013, 10:03:25 PM »

I am aware that a DNG contains metadata that may not be present in the original, but in what ways does the per pixel content differ from the original?
No difference!

Tony Jay
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jrsforums

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Re: DNG or RAW
« Reply #13 on: December 30, 2013, 10:13:59 PM »

No difference!

Tony Jay

I maybe wrong.  However, unless you include the actual RAW data, I do not believe you can claim to have the original data.

If you are going to include the the space for the original RAW data or if you are going to save the original RAW image, I am at a loss to understand the benefit to converting to DNG.

John
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John

digitaldog

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Re: DNG or RAW
« Reply #14 on: December 30, 2013, 10:41:44 PM »

I maybe wrong.  However, unless you include the actual RAW data, I do not believe you can claim to have the original data.
You have all the original raw image data. You care about proprietary metadata and such?
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Andrew Rodney
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Tony Jay

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Re: DNG or RAW
« Reply #15 on: December 31, 2013, 12:44:34 AM »

I maybe wrong.  However, unless you include the actual RAW data, I do not believe you can claim to have the original data.

If you are going to include the the space for the original RAW data or if you are going to save the original RAW image, I am at a loss to understand the benefit to converting to DNG.

The truly daft thing about all of this is that most modern RAW formats are actually based on the DNG standard, most of the "differences" relate to the metadata headers and the encoding of some of the metadata.

Wouldn't it be helpful just to have, at least as an option, the ability to capture RAW images as DNG.
Some manufacturers do use DNG as their native RAW format but it is not yet the norm with more mainstream manufacturers.

Tony Jay
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Bryan Conner

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Re: DNG or RAW
« Reply #16 on: December 31, 2013, 12:51:31 AM »

Hi,

Difficult to foresee the future is…

- It is possible to embed the original raw file in DNG, so you can have it both ways.
- Some raw converters support DNG not at all or half heartedly.
- Some raw converters support DNG but not all raw files.

Personally, I feel that all these raw formats are a bad idea and make the community a disservice.

Best regards
Erik




I agree 100%.  I began converting all of my raw files to dng upon import into Lightroom beginning with Lightroom 4.0.  But, since the release of DXO 9 and specifically it's PRIME noise reduction, I have stopped converting to dng upon import as DXO 9 will not open the Lightroom converted dng files. 

How much of this non acceptance between companies is simply out of spite and how much has an actual technical/workflow reason?
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hjulenissen

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Re: DNG or RAW
« Reply #17 on: December 31, 2013, 01:51:57 AM »

I agree 100%.  I began converting all of my raw files to dng upon import into Lightroom beginning with Lightroom 4.0.  But, since the release of DXO 9 and specifically it's PRIME noise reduction, I have stopped converting to dng upon import as DXO 9 will not open the Lightroom converted dng files. 
Good point
Quote
How much of this non acceptance between companies is simply out of spite and how much has an actual technical/workflow reason?
The not-invented-here syndrome is a very human thing.

-h
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ErikKaffehr

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Re: DNG or RAW
« Reply #18 on: December 31, 2013, 02:26:36 AM »

Hi,

I do it similar, but embedding the raw image in the DNG file. I essentially ignore DxO for incompatibility with non-linear DNG. I am a base ISO guy, so I don't need noise reduction.

Best regards
Erik


I agree 100%.  I began converting all of my raw files to dng upon import into Lightroom beginning with Lightroom 4.0.  But, since the release of DXO 9 and specifically it's PRIME noise reduction, I have stopped converting to dng upon import as DXO 9 will not open the Lightroom converted dng files.  

« Last Edit: December 31, 2013, 02:30:33 AM by ErikKaffehr »
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alain

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Re: DNG or RAW
« Reply #19 on: December 31, 2013, 04:19:40 AM »

Hi,

I do it similar, but embedding the raw image in the DNG file. I essentially ignore DxO for incompatibility with non-linear DNG. I am a base ISO guy, so I don't need noise reduction.

Best regards
Erik


Erik

You understand that converting to dng effectively locked you in the adobe products? IMHO not a wise long term strategy.



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