Why do they mount canvas to stretcher bars?

[Some Guy]

Anyone have a reason why canvas is often attached to wooden frames rather than glued down on some rigid substrate? 

My frame guy mounted my 17x25 inch canvas print onto something and it wasn't a stretcher as it is in a frame with a black suede liner (maybe 3/4" thick) for the mat.  Seems flat enough, but wondered why the wooden stretcher seems to be used more for canvas.  If he had wrapped it, it would be maybe 3" smaller on a side with a lot of the image cropped off.  He did say he used a large heat press for about 30 seconds.

Still, pretty damn expensive to mount it and frame it (And no glass.) $450.

SG

[LeLuni]

Weight/portability, and the ability of canvas to 'breathe' with temperature and humidity fluctuations.
The texture of linen was also a plus for chiaroscuro techniques. The 'give' provided by linen was also a benefit when using a palette knife to scrape in the dark areas. Those are the reasons painters began to use stretchers back in the 15-1600's (my memory is failing me when it truly came about). The only real negative is fragility.

In photography, some of those benefits may apply, but it may also be that people now expect fine art to be mounted to stretchers. I'm curious what material your frame guy mounted your image onto. Would you mind asking him?

John

[neile]

If you search the forum for "gatorboard" or "miracle muck" you'll find tons of posts from people who swear by gluing canvas to board instead of the colossal hassle of stretching.

Neil

[kbolin]

Of course the idea of a good stretcher bar is the ability to add wedges later to tighten the canvas over time.

[Some Guy]

....
In photography, some of those benefits may apply, but it may also be that people now expect fine art to be mounted to stretchers. I'm curious what material your frame guy mounted your image onto. Would you mind asking him?

John

John,

I'll ask him next time I go in about the substrate they used.

The frame he used was one of those double-frame things: an Arquati frame outside, and some wooden thing he called "a liner" (maybe 3" wide) that was wrapped with the black suede fabric and mitered to fit inside of the Arquati frame.  I'm guessing he stapled/tacked the canvas and its substrate that he used (and heat sealed it onto for 30 seconds?) into the suede and wood liner part.  Can't tell since they covered the back with that brown framer's paper.

Does look nice though, and very flat.  Doesn't seem like any moisture would affect the 17x25 inch canvas in the current frame that must be 26x34 inches outside.  I did spray it with PremierArt lacquer prior to handing it over to them just for UV protection.

I'm guessing the paint stores carry the canvas mounted to the wooden frames for the artists to begin painting their gesso prep-stuff onto.  Why it (wooden stretcher bars) is even needed to go that way with photographic inkjet prints is what I was wondering since they can apparently be dry mounted somehow.

Aside, I added a brass dual-tube 15 watt daylight (tinted blue-blub) was screwed onto the backs too.  Made by Westinghouse and sold at Orchard Hardware for $29.  They stick out maybe 10" from the frames and tilt in a bit to light them.  I ran them into a dimmer slide-switch and it really lights them up nicely.  Maybe not as nice as those $1,100 Roger Hogarth LED color-balanced frame lights, but good enough.

SG

[dgberg]

About a half dozen ways to mount canvas. From the cheapie canvas on foamboard to what you received.
You have a very high end mount and expensive too. Plus it is a totally different look then the more contemporary gallery wrap.
You ask why and cost is right up there as the one of the top reasons.
My gallery wrap price for that 17x25' size is $136.00 which includes the processing of the image,printing,2 coats of Timeless varnish,building the stretcher frame,stretching the canvas,installing linen tape over the rear staples and adding the hanging wire. (Not soliciting here just comparing)
You supplied the print plus varnished it and still paid $450.00 but received a very well done mount I am sure.

[fike]

For archival purposes, glue is generally a no-no.  The glue on the back of the canvas could theoretically leech through the canvas and degrade the image area.  It is akin to the idea that the only archival way to frame a paper image is to hang it or set it in photo corners--no adhesive touches the image area. 

[framah]

Dan, the bulk of the cost was the framing around the print, not the mounting process.

The reason we prefer to dry mount canvas to a rigid board of whatever material is to keep the canvas flat. When it is stretched, inkjet canvases have a tendency to loosen and sag a bit. Not all of the canvases out there but enough to never be sure. If the canvas is pulled really tight, it can crack the image at the edge.
So, I always suggest that it be dry mounted and then framed.



As for the process of installing into the frame, yes, the linen liner is usually nailed into the outer frame and then the print was pinned into the rabbet of the liner and then a backing paper was added to finish it off nicely.

[dgberg]

Dan, the bulk of the cost was the framing around the print, not the mounting process.

Of course I know that, I should have explained it the other way around to cover why his cost was what it was.
I was going down the road comparing all you can get for 1/3rd to 1/4th. of the cost.
Did not come out so good,back to the shop I go.









As for the process of installing into the frame, yes, the linen liner is usually nailed into the outer frame and then the print was pinned into the rabbet of the liner and then a backing paper was added to finish it off nicely.

[Some Guy]

Dan, the bulk of the cost was the framing around the print, not the mounting process.

The reason we prefer to dry mount canvas to a rigid board of whatever material is to keep the canvas flat. When it is stretched, inkjet canvases have a tendency to loosen and sag a bit. Not all of the canvases out there but enough to never be sure. If the canvas is pulled really tight, it can crack the image at the edge.
So, I always suggest that it be dry mounted and then framed.



As for the process of installing into the frame, yes, the linen liner is usually nailed into the outer frame and then the print was pinned into the rabbet of the liner and then a backing paper was added to finish it off nicely.

This sounds like what was done to mine.  Dry mounted perhaps since they showed me the heat press (Huge!  Maybe 3x4 feet.) when he said it was in there for about 30 seconds.  Guess it bakes if they go longer and may discolor the ink.

I know the Arquati frame and the black suede liner come as 4 sticks of each from their supplier.  They are already cut to size so they assemble those sticks.  Guess for shipping purposes?

Seems like all oil/acrylic/watercolor paintings there were in stretcher frames, probably bought from the art shop that way and painted.  Just the "canvas inkjet photos" seem dry mounted if that is what they bond with.  Least I don't have to buy an oversize printer to do canvas wraps where I would lose about 3" on a side if they can dry mount.

I've had other photos the same size framed there and with that Tru-View non-reflective museum glass they still hit about $420 or so for 26x34 inch outside dimensions for a 17x25.5 inch print.  I know they charge $50/hr. labor.  Add lights (myself) and they look very nice.  Custom framing sure ain't cheap, but it sure makes even a so-so print look much better.  Sort of a slow process with the frame ordering and stuff (2-5 weeks).

SG

[Wayne Fox]

Canvas stretching for photography has become increasingly popular over the past few years mainly due to the choice of “gallery wrap” canvases.  Many who frame a canvas print will mount it, but gallery wraps are extremely popular.

[framah]

Some guy...

Adding Museum glass to the order will DEFINITELY jump the price!!!

As a long time framer and an unofficial representative of the framing industry, we thank you for spending SOOOOO much money on framing!!

Typically, the moulding comes in "chopped" to size and then we assemble it. We can and do buy in  length when the job calls for it and can also buy the frame joined by the supplier depending on the finished size. Getting it joined saves us alot of time but costs more in shipping.

As for the heat/mount press, my table is 44x68 inches. As for time and temps, the inks we use nowadays are unaffected by heat...well.. at least Epsons inks are ok.

The heat will not discolor the ink. The usual time is apx 3 minutes and 180 degrees on my table.  For me, 30 seconds would barely allow the table to pull a vacuum let alone activate the adhesive.

The average turnaround of a job is about 2 weeks due to the shipping of some materials and the suppliers delivery schedule.
Tell them 2 and do it in a week and your a framing god!!

[enduser]

I can say that Canon pigments are also not affected by heat.  When a canvas wrap gets a dent through hitting something like a corner of a table, we put them face down on a fabric covered hard surface, spray with water and hot iron.  We only use cotton canvas and the effect is that the mark just shrinks away.  You can also tighten a loose canavs the same way.

Even at the hottest iron setting, no effect on ink can be seen.  We've found that when we print on cotton or silk, the backing paper has to be heated with an iron to remove it, and there is no effect on inks then either.

Synthetics, of course, cannot be hot ironed.

[Mike Guilbault]

My gallery wrap price for that 17x25' size is $136.00 which includes the processing of the image,printing,2 coats of Timeless varnish,building the stretcher frame,stretching the canvas,installing linen tape over the rear staples and adding the hanging wire. (Not soliciting here just comparing)

Dan.. what type of linen tape are you using to cover the staples with? 

[dgberg]

Black Lineco,occasionally white.
Works very well and looks clean and neat.

[Mike Guilbault]

Thanks!