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Author Topic: does your "Timeless" varnish ruin your pictures too?  (Read 9952 times)

msongs

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does your "Timeless" varnish ruin your pictures too?
« on: December 10, 2013, 08:00:13 pm »

we bought this stuff and when it is rolled on with even the lightest touch it smears the inks on 3 different test images. we use a canon 8300 and let the inks dry for more than 24 hours before varnishing. no matter how lightly we roll, ink comes off on the foam rollers and when the roller crosses an already rolled area it ruins the picture.
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Msongs
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Paul2660

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Re: does your "Timeless" varnish ruin your pictures too?
« Reply #1 on: December 10, 2013, 08:54:22 pm »

Timeless I feel is best sprayed.  HLVP.  It can be rolled but due to the very short drying time and non-leveling characteristics it is hard to work with when rolled.  Glamour II will be much easier to roll. 

Paul Caldwell
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dgberg

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Re: does your "Timeless" varnish ruin your pictures too?
« Reply #2 on: December 10, 2013, 09:10:20 pm »

Our finish of choice and we use a ton of it.
No problems but then we spray.
Paul hit it on the button If you have to roll then use glamor II.

Mike Guilbault

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Re: does your "Timeless" varnish ruin your pictures too?
« Reply #3 on: December 10, 2013, 09:43:15 pm »

I roll Timeless, both Satin and Matte and have no problem.  I can print in the morning and roll about eight hours later in most cases, although my workflow usually sets my rolling for the next day. Make sure you stir it for at least three minutes. If it's cold in my work room, sometimes I'll warm the Timeless up a bit. I do roll it on quickly, pressing heavy at first and then lighter strokes until there's no pressure for the last few strokes.

Sounds like you may have the wrong profile selected for the print.  It may be laying down too much ink and doesn't get a chance to dry. 
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msongs

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Re: does your "Timeless" varnish ruin your pictures too?
« Reply #4 on: December 10, 2013, 10:13:28 pm »

I use the profile that the canvas maker provides (lexjet) and have been rolling varnishes for years. unfortunately this stuff is $150 a gallon incl shipping and that is a lot to dump in the trash.  breathing color charged us a lot more to ship TO us than it would cost to ship the same package back using UPS so the shipping was almost as much as the product. Watched their videos online and am doing it like they said. tried this stuff because lexjet brand yellows too much.
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Msongs
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Kanvas Keepsakes

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Re: does your "Timeless" varnish ruin your pictures too?
« Reply #5 on: December 10, 2013, 10:24:28 pm »

I switched from Timeless to Clearshield Type C Satin.  I just wasn't skilled enough to lay down timeless flawlessly.  I spray also.  Clearshield gallon shipped from IT Supplies gets to my house in 2 days and total about $110 with shipping.  I love the finish and the flexibility this coating gives me. 
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Justin B

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Re: does your "Timeless" varnish ruin your pictures too?
« Reply #6 on: December 10, 2013, 10:42:47 pm »

I switched from Timeless to Clearshield Type C Satin.  I just wasn't skilled enough to lay down timeless flawlessly.  I spray also.  Clearshield gallon shipped from IT Supplies gets to my house in 2 days and total about $110 with shipping.  I love the finish and the flexibility this coating gives me.  

Msongs, I don't see where you have mentioned exactly which media you are printing on? I saw Lexjet, but specifically which? And you mentioned that you are using Lexjet's profile, but what about the media type setting in the driver? This is what has most control of ink usage on a given print.
« Last Edit: December 10, 2013, 10:44:48 pm by Justin B »
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Wayne Fox

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Re: does your "Timeless" varnish ruin your pictures too?
« Reply #7 on: December 11, 2013, 02:12:12 am »

I roll Timeless, both Satin and Matte and have no problem.  I can print in the morning and roll about eight hours later in most cases, although my workflow usually sets my rolling for the next day. Make sure you stir it for at least three minutes. If it's cold in my work room, sometimes I'll warm the Timeless up a bit. I do roll it on quickly, pressing heavy at first and then lighter strokes until there's no pressure for the last few strokes.

Sounds like you may have the wrong profile selected for the print.  It may be laying down too much ink and doesn't get a chance to dry. 
You print on an Epson right? Just wondering if there is an issue with the Canon inks. Are any of the other's who posted using a Canon, maybe could clarify.

 I never tried it when I was using a Canon 6100, but had no trouble with it when I did try it for a few prints after moving back to an Epson 7900.  This was sometime ago, so I used glamour 2 on the Chromata product. Decided canvas wasn't for me so never tried the Lyve or timeless.
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msongs

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Re: does your "Timeless" varnish ruin your pictures too?
« Reply #8 on: December 11, 2013, 03:13:04 am »

to print I use lexjet's settings for the specific canvas l, also using the specific color profile
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Msongs
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dgberg

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Re: does your "Timeless" varnish ruin your pictures too?
« Reply #9 on: December 11, 2013, 06:02:25 am »

Which canvas and settings?

Iluvmycam

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Re: does your "Timeless" varnish ruin your pictures too?
« Reply #10 on: December 11, 2013, 06:48:52 am »

I used the spray version on a dye transfer back in the 70's. It messed up the surface over time.
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dgberg

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Re: does your "Timeless" varnish ruin your pictures too?
« Reply #11 on: December 11, 2013, 07:27:12 am »

dye trasfer to what substrate?

Malcolm Payne

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Re: does your "Timeless" varnish ruin your pictures too?
« Reply #12 on: December 11, 2013, 10:13:32 am »

No problems here rolling Timeless, using Breathing Colour's 'Lyve' canvas with either my own or BC's profile on an iPF8300 and in varying temperatures and humidity.

Finished prints I spray with a Fuji HVLP system but, when proofing for final adjustments, and frequently after as little as 15 min curing time, I apply 'stale' diluted Timeless left over from previous jobs with a roller, using the recommended method of heavy strokes initially then finishing with passes using only the weight of the roller. There is some very slight ink lifting after such a short drying time, but this is only apparent as a faint darkening of the roller and has no visible effects on the print.

The only issue I sometimes have with sprayed Timeless, especially in cold weather, is in its tendency for the droplets to form small clumps rather than flowing together evenly, giving a slightly 'granular' appearance to the coating, but I suspect that is probably at least partially due to a sub-optimal adjustment of the gun for the ambient conditions and is something that requires further experimentation.

I would have no problem hand rolling smaller prints with Timeless if necessary, but I suspect it might be more difficult to achieve a flawless finish on large prints due to its fast drying time. Overall, I think Glamour II is easier to work with, and I shall probably revert to that for the majority of my canvas prints.
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Justin B

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Re: does your "Timeless" varnish ruin your pictures too?
« Reply #13 on: December 11, 2013, 10:55:51 am »

I used the spray version on a dye transfer back in the 70's. It messed up the surface over time.

In the 70s? You used the spray version of what? On which substrate?
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Scott Martin

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Re: does your "Timeless" varnish ruin your pictures too?
« Reply #14 on: December 11, 2013, 11:22:30 am »

we bought this stuff and when it is rolled on with even the lightest touch it smears the inks on 3 different test images.

I'm guessing you're using a microporous surface like an RC paper that's not compatible with any water based varnish? You need to use a media (like canvas) that's compatible with these varnish products.
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msongs

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the canvas and setting is...
« Reply #15 on: December 11, 2013, 03:22:49 pm »

canvas is lexjet sunset select matte and the driver setting is the one lexjet provides for that canvas type
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Msongs
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dgberg

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Re: the canvas and setting is...
« Reply #16 on: December 11, 2013, 04:26:28 pm »

canvas is lexjet sunset select matte and the driver setting is the one lexjet provides for that canvas type


Using Matte (MK) ink?

Larry Heath

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Re: does your "Timeless" varnish ruin your pictures too?
« Reply #17 on: December 11, 2013, 06:05:33 pm »

I've used Timeless a while now and only had one or two problems like you describe, early on. I learned pretty quick to roll one heavy coat first and then let it dry a good long while, an hour or two. Soak the roller really well and then pour a half pint or so directly on the center of the canvas and roll out from the puddle to the edges. Don't over work the coating, just get it covered and stop. Then another lighter coat volume wise or two if needed, you can lean on the roller pretty hard at this point. I have found that if the rollers don't roll quite easily then they will slide on the canvas scuffing the surface and move ink around. So you really need to clean the holder so it doesn't drag the roller.

I've since gone the HVLP spray route, just so much better, easer and quicker.

Later Larry
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Scott Martin

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Re: does your "Timeless" varnish ruin your pictures too?
« Reply #18 on: December 11, 2013, 08:10:23 pm »

Wow, I haven't used that particular canvas but that's surprising to hear that you seeing that kind of smudging. I can vouch that Timeless and the 8300 inks are both great for this process. Moving to HVLP might be a smart move on several levels.
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bill t.

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Re: does your "Timeless" varnish ruin your pictures too?
« Reply #19 on: December 12, 2013, 02:51:59 pm »

If your first pass is smearing ink, use a special first-pass mixture with your normal coating diluted by about 1/2 with water.  Coatings are a weak solvent for inks, but water is not.  Put that first coating on fast, and be sure you're not scrubbing the surface with the roller.  Think how roller bearings work between two pieces of metal...no rubbing, no scrubbing, just rolling.  Pressing creates scrubbing from the foam spreading out, so go easy with the pressing on the first pass.  But after that first pass, press as hard as you want.

Fact of life...8300 inks are a little more coating soluble than most, if you're rolling you should seal the surface with that diluted first coat.  That's especially true for glossy canvas, much less so with matte.

As so many have said, HVLP is bliss, if you have a space for it.

Edit...start with a wet but not too wet foam roller.  Just hold it under the hot water faucet for a few seconds, squeeze out the excess water.  Helps keep down the bubbles.  Don't worry too much about the finish on the first pass, little puddles will level out over several minutes.  The thin mixture will permeate the whole thickness of the canvas, for fastest drying you can hang the print up on a clothes line or such to expose the back to air, much faster drying than with the print on the table.  Or hang the print from the edge of a table with good masking tape, that works too.  But do the coating with the print on a table of relatively horizontal flat surface.

If you get eyelashes, cat hairs, or general crud on that first coat, just wait until the print dries and you can easily whisk off the crud with your fingers.  Never a good idea to go poking at a wet print, IMHO.  One advantage to thin coats is you can pick off each coat's dirt when that coat is dry, rather than marring a thickly coated wet print with tweezers.  It's a trade off.
« Last Edit: December 12, 2013, 03:27:22 pm by bill t. »
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