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Author Topic: Ilford Imaging bankrupt  (Read 51181 times)

Ernst Dinkla

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Re: Ilford Imaging bankrupt
« Reply #100 on: September 21, 2014, 10:09:41 am »

I was at Photokina today, and what do I see ? An Ilford booth ! So I asked them what the situation was. They told me, that all the paper-related stuff had been bought, and that production of all papers had restarted.
They are still ramping up distribution, but he told me that in principle, all their papers (including my favorite, Gold Fiber Silk) were available.

Been there on Wednesday and collected the samples book that should represent the new production papers. To be sure about the last I asked that three times. They also  told me that on the old boxes a Swiss vlag is present and no longer on the new boxes. Which is sensible as production is no longer done in Marly.
Hope to measure the paper whites soon.

Ernst
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Mark D Segal

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Re: Ilford Imaging bankrupt
« Reply #101 on: September 21, 2014, 10:57:04 am »

Been there on Wednesday and collected the samples book that should represent the new production papers. To be sure about the last I asked that three times. They also  told me that on the old boxes a Swiss vlag is present and no longer on the new boxes. Which is sensible as production is no longer done in Marly.
Hope to measure the paper whites soon.

Ernst

If you read the sticky label holding together the bottom and the cover of the "Marly" boxes, it says "Made in Germany". So it will likely just continue to be made in Germany as it was in the past, this time without the Swiss flag, which indicated the head office of the company, not necessarily the place of manufacture. Of course these days only the company and the regulators know the detail of what those labels really mean.
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Mark D Segal (formerly MarkDS)
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jed best

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Re: Ilford Imaging bankrupt
« Reply #102 on: September 21, 2014, 11:34:02 am »

For what it is worth, I was told by my paper supplier that when Ilford went bankrupt their exclusive over the specs of their papers, Ilford Gold Fiber Silk, ended. As such, that process was made available to other paper companies like Hahnemuhle.
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Alan Goldhammer

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Re: Ilford Imaging bankrupt
« Reply #103 on: September 21, 2014, 11:34:15 am »

Rather curious that there is nothing up on the Ilford website other than a couple of perfunctory new releases dated August 4 about distribution of paper in the US and Canada.  I though I read somewhere that a lot of the equipment at the Marly plant had been sold off.  Are Ilford manufacturing or just sourcing?
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Mark D Segal

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Re: Ilford Imaging bankrupt
« Reply #104 on: September 21, 2014, 11:49:41 am »

For what it is worth, I was told by my paper supplier that when Ilford went bankrupt their exclusive over the specs of their papers, Ilford Gold Fiber Silk, ended. As such, that process was made available to other paper companies like Hahnemuhle.

In a normal bankruptcy proceeding, patents, unless held in a manner that is beyond the reach of a bankruptcy trustee, are erstwhile company assets held by the bankruptcy trustee pending disposition of the bankruptcy. Unless someone has the ownership details of the patents and the disposition of the bankruptcy, it would be hard to know for sure what happened to those patents. I expect the current manufacturer obtained the patent rights.
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Mark D Segal (formerly MarkDS)
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Mark D Segal

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Re: Ilford Imaging bankrupt
« Reply #105 on: September 21, 2014, 12:00:01 pm »

 Are Ilford manufacturing or just sourcing?

Probably a combination. I'm interested to learn what the new ownership and operational arrangements are. Nothing posted that I could find, yet.
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Mark D Segal (formerly MarkDS)
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jed best

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Re: Ilford Imaging bankrupt
« Reply #106 on: September 21, 2014, 12:16:04 pm »

Hi Mark,

My paper supplier did not mention that Ilford had a patent on the specification and that the paper was not directly made by them. when they went bankrupt, that process was made available to others. I am getting this 2nd hand but he is a very large paper supplier in the US. My 2 cents anyway.
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Ernst Dinkla

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Re: Ilford Imaging bankrupt
« Reply #107 on: September 21, 2014, 04:30:29 pm »

If you read the sticky label holding together the bottom and the cover of the "Marly" boxes, it says "Made in Germany". So it will likely just continue to be made in Germany as it was in the past, this time without the Swiss flag, which indicated the head office of the company, not necessarily the place of manufacture. Of course these days only the company and the regulators know the detail of what those labels really mean.

Converting jumbo rolls to smaller rolls and sheets done in Germany is already enough to get the label Made in Germany. Swiss is not in the EU so doing that job in the EU could be a good decision considering import taxes. And yes, I doubt that all the Ilford media was coated in Marly. On the other hand it is unlikely that the Marly facility was only working for third parties while Ilford Imaging had all their Ilford labeled media made in Germany. The IGFS has so many clones that are indentical that it could have its origin in the Schoeller factory in Germany and it will be easy for the new Ilford undertaking to get it there too. It will be more interesting to check whether the RC quality like the Smooth Pearl is exactly the same, at least its paper white spectral plot was quite unique.

On patents; the Hahnemühle alternatives for Ilford products do not have the same characteristics.

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Mark D Segal

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Re: Ilford Imaging bankrupt
« Reply #108 on: September 21, 2014, 04:45:26 pm »

Well regarding the label, as one of those hair-dye ads used to say: "only her hairdresser knows". As you know, there are content rules governing the label of origin, and Switzerland has about 210 trade treaties with the EU, which for most intents and purposes add-up to free movement of goods, services, people and capital between Switzerland and the EU. I suspect the dispersion of manufacturing components was largely determined by commercial considerations and the labeling needed to respect the EU's value-added/country of origin/labeling rules. Of course if the Marly plant was definitively closed-down, and if anything was done there with IGFS, it would now need to be done elsewhere. We will be depending on you, Ernst, to tell us whether the re-incarnated IGFS is the same as what we were all accustomed to. That will be the most important information going forward.
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Mark D Segal (formerly MarkDS)
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Alan Goldhammer

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Re: Ilford Imaging bankrupt
« Reply #109 on: September 21, 2014, 06:25:16 pm »

I suspect most of us have some sheets of IGFS that we can test against the new IGFS (if in fact it is new).  Certainly Ernst's spectral data will be important and doing a color patch response test is also easily done.  I did this a year or so ago for Museo when they change paper manufacturers for Silver Rag.  The paper showed identical Dmax and color patch behavior compared to the earlier paper stock and I ended up getting a free roll of paper from the experience!!!

I have about 30 sheets of 13x19 IGFS that I haven't printed on yet and I'll save some to run a color test when the new stuff hits the shore here in the US.  I'll throw in some of the Canson Baryta Photographique to see how that stacks up as well.
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BobShaw

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Re: Ilford Imaging bankrupt
« Reply #110 on: September 22, 2014, 06:48:16 am »

The production has been moved due to economic considerations but the formulas etc are the same. I was told that by a rep from CR Kennedy who are one of the co buyers.
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Alan Goldhammer

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Re: Ilford Imaging bankrupt
« Reply #111 on: September 22, 2014, 07:24:35 am »

The production has been moved due to economic considerations but the formulas etc are the same. I was told that by a rep from CR Kennedy who are one of the co buyers.
It's appropriate to bring out the old chestnut from the national security days of the cold war, "trust but verify." ;)
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Mark D Segal

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Re: Ilford Imaging bankrupt
« Reply #112 on: September 22, 2014, 10:20:24 am »

It's appropriate to bring out the old chestnut from the national security days of the cold war, "trust but verify." ;)

Hi Alan, of course, but the verification may be perfunctory based on the info in this useful article on the subject: http://www.buy-n-shoot.com/content/view/2665/. Seems as if they've bought all they need to maintain output as it was.
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Mark D Segal (formerly MarkDS)
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lelouarn

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Re: Ilford Imaging bankrupt
« Reply #113 on: September 22, 2014, 11:00:08 am »

I seem to recall that the Ilford guy at the 'Kina told me that the current owner of Ilford was able to buy the whole operation, so formulae, machines, patents, everything. So the paper should be exactly the same as before. But it's true, as Lenin said, trust is good, control is better :-)
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Alan Goldhammer

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Re: Ilford Imaging bankrupt
« Reply #114 on: September 22, 2014, 03:45:19 pm »

Hi Alan, of course, but the verification may be perfunctory based on the info in this useful article on the subject: http://www.buy-n-shoot.com/content/view/2665/. Seems as if they've bought all they need to maintain output as it was.
Thanks, but I wonder why they didn't bother to post relevant information on the Ilford website.  At any rate I will post my test results as soon as the new paper is available in the US.
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Mark D Segal

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Re: Ilford Imaging bankrupt
« Reply #115 on: September 22, 2014, 04:15:56 pm »

They are likely developing a new website. I have been reliably informed the US will be getting this paper soon. I hope likewise for Canada.
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Mark D Segal (formerly MarkDS)
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Alan Goldhammer

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Re: Ilford Imaging bankrupt
« Reply #116 on: September 22, 2014, 04:40:33 pm »

They are likely developing a new website. I have been reliably informed the US will be getting this paper soon. I hope likewise for Canada.
http://www.ilford.com/sites/default/files/pressarticles/ILFORD_Press_Release_AMPLIS_FOTO_20140804.pdf  says this month.  I wonder how much "old" stock is still on dealer's shelves.
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Mark D Segal

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Re: Ilford Imaging bankrupt
« Reply #117 on: September 22, 2014, 05:31:26 pm »

Thanks Alan, that's helpful.
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Mark D Segal (formerly MarkDS)
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Ernst Dinkla

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Re: Ilford Imaging bankrupt
« Reply #118 on: September 22, 2014, 05:35:45 pm »

In spectral plots the new production Ilford (N) Gal. Prestige Smooth Pearl RC 310 grams comes close to the original old versions of 280 and 310 grams. Base material is the same. Coating spectral plot has a difference but that falls mainly outside the visual spectrum; a small hickup in the UV part more often found in RC media from the Far East; Fuji, Mitsubishi.

Ilford (N) Gal. Prestige Smooth Pearl 310 gsm Lab 96.0 -0.2 -3.4 brown plotlines
Ilford Gal. Prestige Smooth Pearl 310 gsm Lab 94.3 0.0 -4.2 yellow plotlines
Ilford Gal. Smooth Pearl 280 gsm Lab 95.3 -0.1 -4.9 red plotlines

No new Photokina 2014 papers are added to the SpectrumViz list yet. I probably have to make about 30 new measurements but have no time yet.


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April 2014, 600+ inkjet media white spectral plots.
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Mark D Segal

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Re: Ilford Imaging bankrupt
« Reply #119 on: September 22, 2014, 05:47:01 pm »

Good to know Ernst. Are they producing yet and have you measured the new production of Gold Fibre Silk?
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Mark D Segal (formerly MarkDS)
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