Would like some advice

[boinger]

Thanks for the replies guys. So medium format won't really help me in what I want but it will give me a nicer looking image ?

I do notice that the d800 doesn't give me good details in the highlights and unfortunately that is almost all jewelry.
 
Will a tech can give me better ability to control dof ? I was looking at a linhof 679 with a db a long time ago.

[synn]

Alex Koloskov at Akel Studio uses a tech camera with a medium format back for his product shoots, including jewelery. He seems to be doing pretty good work with it.He even has some tutorials at his site.

http://www.photigy.com/

[BernardLanguillier]

Thanks for the replies guys. So medium format won't really help me in what I want but it will give me a nicer looking image ?

I do notice that the d800 doesn't give me good details in the highlights and unfortunately that is almost all jewelry.

Have you tried under-exposing 1-2 stops at capture?

Cheers,
Bernard

[boinger]

I currently do that but the rest of the image seems to dark

[Bart_van_der_Wolf]

So medium format won't really help me in what I want but it will give me a nicer looking image ?

Hi,

Medium format will not help you with DOF, because you need to stop down further with their longer focal lengths. Different lenses may help, or not, it depends on how your current lenses render the objects. Tilt and shift capability will always be beneficial.

I do notice that the d800 doesn't give me good details in the highlights and unfortunately that is almost all jewelry.

Which Raw converter?

ACR/Lightroom compresses highlights in PV2012, unless you reduce the highlights slider control. Capture One by default uses a 'film curve' response, which compresses highlights. When you use a linear response you'll have the opportunity to make your own highlight roll-off with Curves and/or HDR Highlight control. Shorter focal lengths will help with DOF, but the shorter shooting distance also changes perspective and room to maneuver.

Will a tech can give me better ability to control dof ?

Maybe slightly more convenient but not really different compared to a good T/S lens. Shooting tethered helps a lot with such adjustments.

With proper deconvolution sharpening, you can restore a significant amount of diffraction blur. However, do not use apertures that will effectively limit your resolution beyond restoration capacity. If DOF is more important than resolution, you can also shoot from a little further away, a smaller magnification factor will add DOF at the expense of resolution.

Cheers,
Bart

[boinger]

Thanks for all the input fellas. It really does make this decision more difficult. I was almost set to go for MF but now you have me doubting myself.

I would like to experiment with MF anyway but maybe not for my work. If I were to get an MF system what would you recommend between the

Leaf Aptus II-28 with 645AFD III or Leaf Aptus II Mamiya 645 DF  - 33 ?

price difference between the two is about $2500. Also how long will the digital back last me assuming it is already old?

[ErikKaffehr]

Hi,

Digital backs have no moving parts, except the fan on the some Aptus backs. As a side comment, putting a fan on back seems to be just crazy to me, anything that moves causes vibrations. Repairs can be very expensive.

Personally, I bought a Phase One P45+, in part because it was recommended by folks I trust.

If I would live in the US I would consider buying from DT or Capture Integration as both Doug Peterson and Dave Glover give very good information.

Best regards
Erik

Thanks for all the input fellas. It really does make this decision more difficult. I was almost set to go for MF but now you have me doubting myself.

I would like to experiment with MF anyway but maybe not for my work. If I were to get an MF system what would you recommend between the

Leaf Aptus II-28 with 645AFD III or Leaf Aptus II Mamiya 645 DF  - 33 ?

price difference between the two is about $2500. Also how long will the digital back last me assuming it is already old?

[Alan Klein]

Erik  Curious how the Stackshot works.  How many shots do you take?  How do you combine them?  Aren't the subkject different sizes adding to a combination problem?  Please explain explain.

[ErikKaffehr]

Hi,

I have not used stackshot. It is just a mechanical device taking the hard work out of stacking.

In many situations, especially macro work, it is not possible to achieve enough DoF. It is possible to take a bunch shots with different focus and stack them with a program that locates the sharpest part of each image and merges into a single picture. You need multiple images. Here are some shots made with that technique:





I use Helicon focus some times. Photoshop CS has also a stacking feature, which I also use as it is better integrated with Lightroom. The technique is a bit tricky but in studio conditions it would be a piece of cake. I'll try to post a sample in the weekend, if I get some time.

Best regards
Erik

Erik  Curious how the Stackshot works.  How many shots do you take?  How do you combine them?  Aren't the subkject different sizes adding to a combination problem?  Please explain explain.

[boinger]

I also had the same problem that Alan was describing. Basicly when I move the camera on the focus rails the image moves. So how do I prevent that? Or does it not matter?

[ErikKaffehr]

Hi,

It does not matter a lot. The focus stackers are pretty good at aligning the images. But you need more images than what you would expect.

One way worth of trying could be to make just two shots. One stopped down as much as possible for DoF and one at optimal aperture and combine the two.

If you shoot Canon or Nikon some programs can automate focus stacking as focusing can be remotely controlled. I would suggest that you try to get some feeling for the technique, and if you find it is workable you could try to find an efficient workflow.

I have some plan to shoot a couple of examples in the weekend, but cannot make a promise. It depends much on energy levels…

Best regards
Erik

I also had the same problem that Alan was describing. Basicly when I move the camera on the focus rails the image moves. So how do I prevent that? Or does it not matter?

[ErikKaffehr]

Hi,

I posted 4 samples.

Two layered tiffs from

- my P45+ with a Zeiss Macro Planar 120/ (at f/8, f/16, f/32)
- my Sony Alpha 99 with a Minolta 100/2 macro (at f/8, f/16, f/32)

Note: the f/32 images were underexposed by 2.5 stops and corrected in development (due to flash power not enough syndrome).

I also posted two images focus stacked with ZereneStacker, these were shot on the P45+ (f/11) and the Sony (f/8) three mm movement between shots.
Note: My rather old copy of Helicon Focus did not work.

The files are here: http://echophoto.dnsalias.net/ekr/Articles/MacroDemo_res/



Best regards
Erik

[Phil Indeblanc]

Just back off a bit, and lose resolution vs dof as suggested.

It depends on your usage/print distance.

[EricWHiss]

Backing up was one of my thoughts too, and for this MF makes it easier since the images are crisper, particularly with Multishot.   Also keep your final print/output size in mind.  No one is going to notice softness from diffraction in a web image or a small placement. 

[ErikKaffehr]

Hi Eric,

Yes, it may bee a good idea. But he was also complaining on diffraction softening at f/16 on Nikon D800E, so I guess he cares a lot about sharpness.

I would suggest that stacking is a workable solution. 

Best regards
Erik

Backing up was one of my thoughts too, and for this MF makes it easier since the images are crisper, particularly with Multishot.   Also keep your final print/output size in mind.  No one is going to notice softness from diffraction in a web image or a small placement. 

[EricWHiss]

The laws of physics and diffraction are the 'laws', but my experience is that some lenses suffer more from diffraction than others, probably related to aperture blade design and location,  plus some lenses have focus shift related to aperture.  Some lenses also perform better at small aperture and some were optimized for wide open.    In addition to all the suggestions already posted in this thread, using movements to control DOF, backing off, etc. it may be worthwhile looking at the lenses too.   With the larger sensors of MFDB's the lenses are stressed less but probably all are of better quality on average than those of 35mm format.  This usually pays off in the image and just another subtle reason for a MF camera.  It looks like the really great 135mm lenses  zeiss optus or whatever are in the same price range as the MF lenses.   

[Phil Indeblanc]

I think some lenses can be stopped down further. I don't know the reasons, nor do I delve into the how's, but I can see from expereince how for example a Nikkor 120 LF lens cannot be stopped further than around 11, while a number of others I use certainly can. It sounds logical that the blade shape makes a difference on how light is bounced or absorbed.

[boinger]

Thanks for all the tips guys. I will have to try a few suggestions and see which one works best.

I did end up going for a MF system. I bought a used Mamiya Dm33 kit at what I thought was a good price for it.

I am going to pair it with a fuji GX680 to get some movements out of it as well.

[Phil Indeblanc]

you might wanna try something else. The front moves instead of the film plane. Lens "distortion" will vary.

Btw, what did you pick it up for being a good price?

[boinger]

I got it for $8500 including shipping in excellent condition.