? For someone with StudioPrint 14 and Canon ipf printer.

[Some Guy]

Can one use StudioPrint 14 and one of the 12 ink carts in the Canon ipf5100, then do a split of the 12 OEM tanks to six warm-tone B&W K7 inks, and six cool-tone K7 inks with the RIP software?  Maybe do a combination of them for a neutral-tone too?

I tried calling Ergosoft but they are closed for the holidays (USA).  Was going to try and pull a "Black Friday Sale" discount thing too, but no chance there being closed.   

Tia.

SG

[aaronchan]

yes you can
but you have to do the blending and combination math in your head first

aaron

[TylerB]

the problem is using special inksets in the Canons. They have internal buffers that hold ink, you can't get to them to clear the OEM color ink sufficiently. Pretty sure Jon Cone brought one in house and explored it thoroughly, and could not crack it. It's a shame, would have made a great monochromatic printer, and StudioPrint does support it completely, Canon has not disallowed total control of assigning inks to tanks etc.. all seemed perfect until that roadblock with the buffers.

[Some Guy]

the problem is using special inksets in the Canons. They have internal buffers that hold ink, you can't get to them to clear the OEM color ink sufficiently. Pretty sure Jon Cone brought one in house and explored it thoroughly, and could not crack it. It's a shame, would have made a great monochromatic printer, and StudioPrint does support it completely, Canon has not disallowed total control of assigning inks to tanks etc.. all seemed perfect until that roadblock with the buffers.

I was just reading something by Cone on the Canons.  The initial K7 B&W ink setup could be done to a virgin ipf5100 to keep the buffer contamination down and from influencing any ink passing through, but also since his inks are encapsulated - and the Canon print heads use heat to fire off the droplets whereas Epson uses air - the encapsulation stuff would melt and gum the heads up in short order so it was a no-go for him.  So not only is the buffer part bad, the encapsulated ink is the real killer too.

Might work with a non-encapulated ink on a new Canon printer.  Problem would be in finding that ink, and the correct math for the B&W tonal mixes too.  Maybe a gloss optimizer for the 12th tank.  That and finding a good refillable ink cart for the printer and whatever else one needs to use non OEM carts in it.

I use OCP ink in the small Canon I have and it works well and doesn't clog.  It's dye though so who knows how long it lasts against Canon's Lucia ink (A non-encapsulated pigment?).  Might be able to make up some mix of Canon's black and whatever else they use as a carrier.

SG

[Ernst Dinkla]

Both the HP Vivera pigment and the Canon Lucia pigment particles are encapsulated and go through thermal heads with maybe a 130 degree C heat peak. Could be that their polymer is a different one that can handle that heat. Maybe Cone's inks for the Epson can not be so easily go through thermal heads. There are third party pigment inks for thermal heads though.

Creating grey inks by diluting Vivera PK black with an ink medium intended for thermal heads is possible and I have done that for an HP Officejet (3/4 dye) printer that is running close to 2 years on quad inks now. A trial with the idea to get that solution on wider inkjet printer models with thermal heads.  The old ink can be pulled out of the inktubes and the tubes cleaned, the buffer ink in most HP heads can be removed for 90% and it will not take much time to get rid of the last color with prints. On Z2100 printers I see a possibility to use B&W profiles based on Photoshop partitioning curves and the HP driver. The Paul Roark style curves>linearisation>QTR profile creation like I use for the Officejet. For the Z3100-Z3200 it will be difficult given its complicated color mixing system. Some kind of RIP is then needed and one that gives access to all the channels individually, my Wasatch SoftRip does not have that. It should be possible on Canon models too in my opinion, one of the cheaper CAD models could be a Guinea pig, for example the iPF610, one 4 picoliter, 5/6 channel head to control. The Bowhaus guys never answered my question whether their RIP could support that model.

--
Met vriendelijke groet, Ernst

http://www.pigment-print.com/spectralplots/spectrumviz_1.htm
July 2013, 500+ inkjet media white spectral plots.

[Some Guy]

Thanks Ernst for the info on the Canon Lucia ink encapsulation.

I suspect that the Ergosoft StudioPrint 14 might be the only printer ink substitute RIP software that works well since Cones sells or sold it for his Piezo inks, at least for Windows 8.  The QuadTone RIP I played with wasn't up to speed and had issues running with Windows 8-64, and sometimes forever like it was stuck in a loop.  That program looks like it was made back in Windows 98 era.  Too bad Mr. Harrington doesn't find someone to update it as it is buggy.  Seems better suited to Macs.

I saw something on Paul Roake's ink mixing methodology off the MIS Ink website.  I don't know if it was meant for Canon, probably Epson.  MIS mentioned they don't have an inkset for the Epson 3880 they recommend which I thought odd.  Maybe a BK-7 of theirs, but that was it.

Seems like the Canon ipf5100 with 12 inks would be an ideal cool & warm tone B&W printer both if one could find the proper inkset for it - and if StudioPrint 14 will address the issue.  I' waiting to hear from them too, but seems they do show it as a model they support on their website, just maybe not this plan?

SG

[aaronchan]

actually i've talked to an engineer from canon before and they said removing ink from the second tank is possible, but i have to check with them again in the future.

and yes, the piezo ink is encapsulated with the different polymer than the canon and hp's, it cannot be used with a thermal print head, otherwise, it will burn it up.

aaron

[TylerB]

I just set up a test SPv14 5100 environment, and yes it does support monochrome multi K for up to 7 densities, just as with older model Epsons, with totally assignable ink to cart setup, including "none". Of course I had no printer to try it with, but the support in RIP is there. For that matter, it's there for HP as well, assuming some modified multi K inkset. The remaining Canon issues, like suitable ink, I'm not knowledgable of. Gloss optimizer is another issue, if you want it to go down in the same pass as your image forming inks, rather than a second pass like the current Cone gloss system, you'll have to do it with a spot channel setup, and build your channel in PS before printing. It can be a solid density, or something derived from the image, or some combination. Having done that myself., I can tell you it's a bit of work to get happening, but it can work. I was doing it with a k7 Cone setup in an Epson, and failed to get a result as good as a 2 pass setup, so dropped it. Perhaps another ink may be more successful for a single pass spot channel option.

[Some Guy]

Heard back from Ergosoft today.

Evidently it can be set up to do a warm and cool tone K7 both in the Canon ipf5100 printer that has the 12 ink carts.  The neutral mix may be a bit much.  They told me they have to walk one through the initial setup though.

Also, the upgrade price from StudioPrint version 13 to 14 was $500.  No telling on the SP 14 to 15 price since it isn't out yet.

SG

[TylerB]

so they had a recommendation for a viable inkset?

[Some Guy]

so they had a recommendation for a viable inkset?

Opps!  Forgot to ask about that ink problem.   

I haven't found a non-encapsulated ink to act like a warm and cool tone set in the Canon 12 ink slots.  Maybe Ergosoft does?  If not, back to looking at a Epson 3880 which accepts the encapsulated K7 stuff.

SG

[TylerB]

There did not used to be individual channel support in Ergosoft for the 17" printers, but I see it's there for the 38xxs, including monochrome multi density K. It would be worth verifying that with them to make sure. Otherwise you are back to a custom QTR setup, certainly very doable and potentially great, but may require some patience...

[Ernst Dinkla]

Image Specialists has alternative pigment inksets for the Canon and HP wide formats. It must be possible to brew a neutral and warm B&W version with the basics of them. For best longevity with a neutral B&W range it should be based on the contents of Vivera carts used for the HP Z6100 (PK and downwards, MK is actually quite warm) and a warm straight carbon version which might be possible with the Image Specialists PK black (the MIS Eboni MK from the same source is actually less warm). So Image specialists MK (if it is Eboni alike) PK and downwards of the HP Vivera carts for neutral, Image Specialists PK and downwards for the warm side. In fact Paul Roark made similar mixes from HP and MIS (IS) components for Epson models.

--
Met vriendelijke groet, Ernst

http://www.pigment-print.com/spectralplots/spectrumviz_1.htm
July 2013, 500+ inkjet media white spectral plots.