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Author Topic: Has anyone ever seen light leaks like this before?  (Read 3921 times)

horsemilk

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Has anyone ever seen light leaks like this before?
« on: November 27, 2013, 06:23:53 pm »

I've been bothered by these light leaks ever since I started using this Mamiya RZ67. Please see gallery here:

http://imgur.com/a/URxVz#0

Originally I thought the problem was one particular back, but the problem seems to exist across at least two different backs. Even worse, it's occurring intermittently across rolls of film. Some frames are fine, some have this very faint strip of discolouration either across the top, left or right sides.

I've tried the standard method of checking the bellows for cracks or light leaks and it seems fine. I will try changing the light seals on the backs when I can get new ones, but I have a sinking suspicion the problem may be something less straightforward, as the leaks change position from left to right, or top (and also bottom in example #3). Also, shouldn't light leaks bleach the film rather than darken it?

Before you suggest that it's a development issue, my lab is a fairly professional film lab, and I have dropped off rolls shot with my Contax 645 at the same time as ones shot with the Mamiya, and the Contax rolls are fine.

Can anyone offer wisdom on what might be causing this problem?
« Last Edit: November 27, 2013, 08:01:47 pm by horsemilk »
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elliot_n

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Re: Has anyone ever seen light leaks like this before?
« Reply #1 on: November 27, 2013, 06:40:42 pm »

What are we looking at? Scans of the film? Scans of a contact-sheet?

Are you sure these marks are on the film itself, and are not artefacts of the scanning or contact-printing process?
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horsemilk

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Re: Has anyone ever seen light leaks like this before?
« Reply #2 on: November 27, 2013, 08:02:50 pm »

These are scans, selected images where the problem has occurred. I don't think it's part of the scanning process, as I've scanned the negs in different configurations, reversed etc. In some cases it's clearly visible on the neg to the naked eye.
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dchew

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Re: Has anyone ever seen light leaks like this before?
« Reply #3 on: November 27, 2013, 08:07:06 pm »

Looks to me like the film is curled away from the flat plane at the edge. Like the film holder is too small for the image format.

Dave
« Last Edit: November 27, 2013, 08:09:03 pm by dchew »
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ErikKaffehr

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Re: Has anyone ever seen light leaks like this before?
« Reply #4 on: November 28, 2013, 01:29:43 am »

Hi,

If the RZ has internal baffles, like the Hasselblad, I would guess that they are not moving fully out of the picture. Light leaks would be bright, but these seems to be dark.

Best regards
Erik
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Erik Kaffehr
 

Christoph C. Feldhaim

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Re: Has anyone ever seen light leaks like this before?
« Reply #5 on: November 28, 2013, 01:42:57 am »

I sometimes have similar leaks with my Coolscan LS 9000.
It has become better when I started masking away the end of the strip or the transparent orange mask areas between the images.
Looks like stray light from the scanning process to me.

Cheers
~Chris

DanielStone

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Re: Has anyone ever seen light leaks like this before?
« Reply #6 on: November 28, 2013, 01:48:06 am »

reminds me of the brown edges around the frames on optical proofsheets.

somehow I think it's some sort of 'light piping' creeping into the edges of the frame from the films rebate area.

I've experienced it myself, although it didn't seem to happen with drum scans I made, but was a common issue when scanning on an Epson flatbed, sometimes even on a Imacon Flextight.

-Dan
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KevinA

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Re: Has anyone ever seen light leaks like this before?
« Reply #7 on: November 28, 2013, 04:49:02 am »

Are you sure it's not in the scanning? I can get that if my film is not in the holder correctly. If there is an edge of film showing it will flare and even bounce off the side of the frame.
If you can't see it on the neg, scan it one way then turn the film around and scan it the other way. If the leak keeps to the same side it's a scanning problem, if it's on the same side of the image it's camera developing problem.
A few years back I was talking to a camera designer/ builder, he said anyone that tells you light only travels in straight lines has never built a camera.
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horsemilk

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Re: Has anyone ever seen light leaks like this before?
« Reply #8 on: November 28, 2013, 08:01:27 am »

Thanks for all the replies, it's heartening to have such knowledgeable advice. As I seriously doubt this is a developing problem due to the placing of the marks and the reputation of my lab, I'm willing to investigate scanning issues.

I'm using a Nikon LS 8000 with the special (and expensive) two-plane glass holder that keeps the film flat. From what Kevin, Daniel and Christoph are saying I'm gathering that it's light seeping from the frames on either side, or the orange strips while scanning? How could I mask it or avoid this issue? Only scanning one frame at a time?
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KevinA

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Re: Has anyone ever seen light leaks like this before?
« Reply #9 on: November 28, 2013, 08:31:33 am »

Thanks for all the replies, it's heartening to have such knowledgeable advice. As I seriously doubt this is a developing problem due to the placing of the marks and the reputation of my lab, I'm willing to investigate scanning issues.

I'm using a Nikon LS 8000 with the special (and expensive) two-plane glass holder that keeps the film flat. From what Kevin, Daniel and Christoph are saying I'm gathering that it's light seeping from the frames on either side, or the orange strips while scanning? How could I mask it or avoid this issue? Only scanning one frame at a time?
That's exactly what I use and that's exactly what I get if the neg is not masked off properly. Black paper.
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Christoph C. Feldhaim

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Re: Has anyone ever seen light leaks like this before?
« Reply #10 on: November 28, 2013, 09:05:25 am »

I am scanning wet and therefore am using a black plastic to mask off transparent areas.
Otherwise black paper does for masking.

bcooter

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Re: Has anyone ever seen light leaks like this before?
« Reply #11 on: November 28, 2013, 10:05:32 am »

I am scanning wet and therefore am using a black plastic to mask off transparent areas.
Otherwise black paper does for masking.

Do you see it between frames?  If so it's a light leak on the back or body, or even light through the viewfinder if it's really bright out, (which all of your samples aren't).

If you never see it between frames then it's something internal with the camera, could be a shutter curtain hanging up.   Canon 1 series do something very similar to this right before the shutter blows.

If you think it's the camera you know it's the answers.  With Bright light pointed at all four sides of your camera and shooting with the lens cap on, test multiple backs with your camera, do the same with another RZ and your backs.

Then you've isolated down to either back or body.

When I used an RZ the backs use to wear out quickly and loose tension keeping the film flat.  I never saw a light leak, but I rarely shot an RZ outside.

IMO

BC
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Christoph C. Feldhaim

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Re: Has anyone ever seen light leaks like this before?
« Reply #12 on: November 28, 2013, 10:14:16 am »

Its sometimes very very weak between the frames.
Usually I see it at the end of the strip when I forget to mask it off properly.

bcooter

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Re: Has anyone ever seen light leaks like this before?
« Reply #13 on: November 28, 2013, 11:04:13 am »

Its sometimes very very weak between the frames.
Usually I see it at the end of the strip when I forget to mask it off properly.

If you can find an old mamiya repair guy that really knows RZ's they probably know the problem in a second and know the fix.

Still I would test as I suggested and use transparency film because the leak would be more obvious.

Chasing this stuff down is only trial and error and sometimes the fix is cheap, sometimes, it means new equipment.

I used RZ's for two years and liked them, never loved them, but always found the weak link was the film backs.  There was always one back out of 10 that had issues and I kept them numbered, the assistants kept a sheet as to what roll was what back so we could keep it isolated.

Good luck

BC
« Last Edit: November 28, 2013, 11:06:03 am by bcooter »
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Christoph C. Feldhaim

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Re: Has anyone ever seen light leaks like this before?
« Reply #14 on: November 28, 2013, 11:10:07 am »

If you can find an old mamiya repair guy that really knows RZ's they probably know the problem in a second and know the fix.

Still I would test as I suggested and use transparency film because the leak would be more obvious.

Chasing this stuff down is only trial and error and sometimes the fix is cheap, sometimes, it means new equipment.

I used RZ's for two years and liked them, never loved them, but always found the weak link was the film backs.  There was always one back out of 10 that had issues and I kept them numbered, the assistants kept a sheet as to what roll was what back so we could keep it isolated.

Good luck

BC

I am not the OP, and I shoot a Mamiya 7 II, not an RZ .. ;)

bcooter

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Re: Has anyone ever seen light leaks like this before?
« Reply #15 on: November 28, 2013, 11:12:39 am »

Ok well, to whoever, the answers are the same.
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DanielStone

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Re: Has anyone ever seen light leaks like this before?
« Reply #16 on: November 28, 2013, 12:11:29 pm »

Try black electrical tape on the illumination side(whichever side the light source side is in your scanner). Tape goes on the OUTSIDE glass surface. Make the window*just* larger than the frame you're scanning. Mount your film over a lightbox, so you can position your film perfectly.

A friend of mine was having major issues with his Nikon 9000 scanner and these brown edges. I drew up a design for an overlay mask made of 0.5mm black acetal plastic(polypropylene sheet). He shoots both 6x7(P67/RZ) and 6x9(Fuji RF), and since using the overlay mask, his scans are now much higher in apparent contrast, less muddying of shadow values in both E6 and color neg films, and when combined with wet tray mounting, are extremely sharp(albeit not as sharp as my drums scans I've done for him on occasion ;-)

The electrical tape solution is cheap, easy, and quite effective. If you remove the tape post-scanning, it cleans up any residual tape adhesive with a bit of alcohol or kami drum cleaner.

Dan
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horsemilk

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Re: Has anyone ever seen light leaks like this before?
« Reply #17 on: December 01, 2013, 05:41:36 pm »

Thanks everyone, with your help I've traced the problem to the scanner. Apparently this can occur with the Nikon Coolscan 8000 when individual frames are not masked, and especially when they are close to a cut piece of film. Tediously masking individual frames with bits of black paper made these dark coloured strips disappear.

It would make sense to cut a paper masking frame to fit the film loader, but unfortunately on wheel or level film advance cameras, such as the RZ67 or Rollei the frames are unevenly spaced :(

At least when I see this coming up in future scans I know how to fix it on re-scanning.

Thanks everyone!
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