Pages: 1 2 [3] 4 5 6   Go Down

Author Topic: Have you switched from Epson to Canon?  (Read 31540 times)

jferrari

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 484
Re: Have you switched from Epson to Canon?
« Reply #40 on: December 17, 2014, 11:19:33 pm »

Im Newbie, but?????

I compared both printers and their output recently..A head to head competition..

I love it!!! LFP humor!!! (As I spew my Dr. Pepper dangerously close to my monitor...)    - Jim
Logged
Nothing changes until something changes.

Phil Indeblanc

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 2017
Re: Have you switched from Epson to Canon?
« Reply #41 on: December 17, 2014, 11:37:45 pm »

Im Newbie, but?????

I compared both printers and their output recently..A head to head competition.. I originally bought the 8400 based upon ease of use and ink set. However, there is a significant difference in the output. That is based upon the technology. The Epson will give better tones than the canon..ITs especially obvious in portrait work. The canon is a great printer, but even on landscapes there also significant difference. The best way to describe it is that the images are compressed. I can see the difference. The reason is based upon the technology and how they print and place ink on paper. Yes there are issues with clogging etc( i even have had a few issues recently on my new printer), but the output is amazing.  I even showed the prints to other experts in the field and they could tell difference right away.

Needless to say a week later I ordered the Epson 9900 and couldnt be happier with the output.

 just my .02c.


I too can't help but laugh as to the 35 vs MF parallel, but I honestly don't know if Glaser is joking or not. (I guess I would have to read more of his posts to help?)


Logged
If you buy a camera, you're a photographer...

hugowolf

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 1001
Re: Have you switched from Epson to Canon?
« Reply #42 on: December 18, 2014, 12:22:21 am »


Right now though, I wouldn’t do anything until I see where each is going.  The new Epson p600 and with the improved inkset will certainly be pushed up the line, and the print quality difference from what i’ve heard are not insignificant, especially in blacks and deeps shadows. Also the new Epson inks and heads may see improvements in nozzle management.

edit:  (I see this is an old thread ... deleted most of my response.  but this part above is still something to consider for those thinking of a new printer now)

But still an Mk/PK switch, if I am reading the specs correctly.

Brian A
Logged

Phil Indeblanc

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 2017
Re: Have you switched from Epson to Canon?
« Reply #43 on: December 18, 2014, 02:11:13 am »

That was the second reason to ditch brand. Who wants to sit there and switch cartridges?

Switching cats just reminded me of a old printer...it would print solid colors. You can print white or gold etc. I want to say it was a Alps.
It took a number of colors and you could print on black paper. It was more for craft, but what a great little machine. I saw it in action, but never purchased it. A bit slow, multiple passes. but hey! We are 2014.
Maybe some new tech can work out the physics?

I hope the OP got the responses expected, if not...carry on.
Logged
If you buy a camera, you're a photographer...

tsjanik

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 720
Re: Have you switched from Epson to Canon?
« Reply #44 on: December 18, 2014, 06:19:06 pm »

Well I haven't yet, but I'm certainly leaning that way.  I've dealt with a number of clog issues with my 4900.  I'm considering getting a 24" printer and have noticed IPF 6400 is available for $1600 after a $300 rebate, whereas the 7900 is  $2650.
I like to print small test prints on 8 1/2x11; the 4900 is great for that with the tray feed.   Will I find it difficult to do this with the larger printers?
Logged

Geraldo Garcia

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 470
    • Personal blog
Re: Have you switched from Epson to Canon?
« Reply #45 on: December 18, 2014, 07:08:22 pm »

I compared both printers and their output recently..A head to head competition.. I originally bought the 8400 based upon ease of use and ink set. However, there is a significant difference in the output. That is based upon the technology. The Epson will give better tones than the canon..ITs especially obvious in portrait work. The canon is a great printer, but even on landscapes there also significant difference. The best way to describe it is that the images are compressed. I can see the difference. The reason is based upon the technology and how they print and place ink on paper. Yes there are issues with clogging etc( i even have had a few issues recently on my new printer), but the output is amazing.  I even showed the prints to other experts in the field and they could tell difference right away.

Well... sorry to say, but what you wrote makes no sense at all. I can only assume you weren't able to set the 8400 properly by some reason (could even be a defective unity).
I have extensive experience with the top printers from the 3 brands (HP Z3200, Canon IPF 8400 and Epson 9900) and I can tell you for sure that any of the three is capable of producing top quality prints, with some slight differences on very specific scenarios. Actually the 8400 has the larger gamut on glossy papers.
Sure we can devise some tests (image/paper combinations) to show the differences between the printers, but you shouldn't be able to see it on 99% of the work and, I must emphasize, even on the rare situations were difference can be seen, "different" doesn't necessarily mean "inferior".

Today I work only with the HP Z3200 and the Canon IPF 8400 because I couldn't justify an Epson 9900. The Z3200 wins on the black and white and has the gloss enhancer (it can make a lot of difference when using satin/luster papers). The IPF 8400 is faster, has better gamut on glossy and gives better scuff resistance. Both never clog and are quite frugal o ink. The 9900 would give me a (slightly) better gamut on matte papers, less image permanence and a lot of head ache.
Logged

Paris1968

  • Newbie
  • *
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 24
Re: Have you switched from Epson to Canon?
« Reply #46 on: December 18, 2014, 08:47:11 pm »

I went the other way.  I bought a IPf 6200 when it first came out, then replaced it with a 6300 about three years ago.  Two years ago I bought an Epson 3880 and a 7900. I use the Canon and the Epsons side by side.  Bottom line, the Epsons have slightly better IQ; it's slight, but noticeable.  The Canon is x10 more user friendly and uses far less ink.  In 6 years of owing IPfs I've only had to replace the heads once.  The 7900 must be used at least once every two days or it will clog. The 3880 seldom clogs and hardly ever needs a nozzle cleaning, even if it sits unused for weeks.  Changing paper on the Canon is a major headache, and feeding sheets is so tedious, I never do it.  Feeding sheets and changing rolls on the 7900 is a breeze.  Every now and again the 7900 and the 3880 will go haywire with a print, the Canon never does.
Logged

deanwork

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 2400
Re: Have you switched from Epson to Canon?
« Reply #47 on: December 18, 2014, 08:54:52 pm »

It would be silly to say that feeding rolls or sheets is a major headache on the IPF 8300.  It is easy as any printer I've ever had. It takes me about a minute to load a 44" roll of anything. I actually much prefer the bottom feeding, It think it is a good design. Never had even a slight paper jam on any media in the Canon, had many on my Epsons.  I spend more time on my 9890 loading rolls, which is easy too.

Yes, I switched to Canon after 15 years of using all kinds of 44 and 24 inch Epsons, just about all of them. Each generation became more problematic in regard to head life and ink waste. If you could pull an Epson head out when a nozzle disappeared and pop another one in for a few hundred bucks after a couple of years it would be one thing, but you can't. When one nozzle goes, your screwed.


« Last Edit: December 18, 2014, 08:57:56 pm by deanwork »
Logged

Paris1968

  • Newbie
  • *
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 24
Re: Have you switched from Epson to Canon?
« Reply #48 on: December 18, 2014, 09:07:18 pm »

"Paper askew" is the problem on the Canpns, especially when feeding a lighter paper, like a roll of banner paper.  This error message repeats time and again, and you just have to start the loading process over and again each time, all the while remembering that insanity has been defined as doing the same thing repeatedly and expecting a different result.  I've had this problem with the 6200 and the 6300, and it has cost me hours of frustration, so much so that I just leave one roll on paper on the Canon, the one I use most often,  and use the 7900 for a variety of paper types.   Although it's not as annoying, I don't see the point of the Canon system of having to mount the roll on a spindle, where on the 7900 you just clamp the roll between two end caps.  Even under ideal conditions, and leaving aside the "paper askew" problem, the Canon loading routine takes at least twice what it does with the 7900.
Logged

hugowolf

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 1001
Re: Have you switched from Epson to Canon?
« Reply #49 on: December 18, 2014, 09:54:52 pm »

I went the other way.  I bought a IPf 6200 when it first came out, then replaced it with a 6300 about three years ago.  Two years ago I bought an Epson 3880 and a 7900. I use the Canon and the Epsons side by side.  Bottom line, the Epsons have slightly better IQ; it's slight, but noticeable.  The Canon is x10 more user friendly and uses far less ink.  In 6 years of owing IPfs I've only had to replace the heads once.  The 7900 must be used at least once every two days or it will clog. The 3880 seldom clogs and hardly ever needs a nozzle cleaning, even if it sits unused for weeks.  Changing paper on the Canon is a major headache, and feeding sheets is so tedious, I never do it.  Feeding sheets and changing rolls on the 7900 is a breeze.  Every now and again the 7900 and the 3880 will go haywire with a print, the Canon never does.

Yes, sheet feeding with Epson printers is definitely superior. I never think twice about loading a sheet in the 9890 or the 3880. I use 24” x 36” sheets in the 44” printer almost as often as rolls.

The roll end carriers on the Epson are also much better – they take both 2” and 3” rolls.

It would be great if these printer manufactures copied the best of their competition.

Brian A
Logged

Landscapes

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 267
Re: Have you switched from Epson to Canon?
« Reply #50 on: December 18, 2014, 10:10:45 pm »

"Paper askew" is the problem on the Canpns, especially when feeding a lighter paper, like a roll of banner paper. 

Have you tried to turn this off in the printer?  There is a setting for each media type, and you can choose how sensitive you want the alignment to be.  I turned this feature completely off and never has a problem, and since its off, I never get a message.  If I can see its clearly off I could reload, but this never happens.

And back to the topic, I've had an iPF6100 that has been a dream.  I didn't use it much the first couple of years and so the heads died prematurely, but just knowing I could replace them myself and be back up and running is important.  When I had an Epson 4000 and 4800, it would always clog, entire channels would drop, cleaning cycles made it worse, etc.  I've got an iPF6400 now and I imagine I will be just as happy with it.
Logged

Phil Indeblanc

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 2017
Re: Have you switched from Epson to Canon?
« Reply #51 on: December 18, 2014, 10:47:15 pm »

I can concur with some of these. All printers have their weak areas and some quirks, but I'm so far very happy with the z3200(recent to me), and for years I've been happy to leave Epson. I still get the Epson impressive mailers of new models and such. I look them over and think what headache have I been missing, I love the prints I get now, and then it goes in the trash bin.
Logged
If you buy a camera, you're a photographer...

deanwork

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 2400
Re: Have you switched from Epson to Canon?
« Reply #52 on: December 19, 2014, 12:08:00 am »

I never think twice about loading a sheet in the Canon 8300. I do it all day long, often they are curled sheets off of the roll. I have also never encountered a roll paper alignment issue. I mean they've got these little red arrows showing you exactly where to place the sheet or roll edge :-). I use everything, thick rag, gloss fiber, canvas, silk, linen, thin Kozo. Feeding has never been a problem and I have never had a roll damaged, ever.

Logged

Dan Wells

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 1044
Re: Have you switched from Epson to Canon?
« Reply #53 on: December 19, 2014, 11:27:24 am »

I've been using large format printers for nearly 15 years, and here are some observations (the important unit I've never used is the Canon x300/x400 - I have a ton of experience with the x100 generation, but have only seen occasional output from the newest Canons, never really used one).

1.) Canons ARE lower maintenance - I get exceptional image quality from my 7900, but it does like its nozzles checked. I haven't had a clog a simple clean won't fix right away, but it isn't zero-attention like a Canon.

2.) Epson's current paper feed is far superior to anything Canon has ever put together - it's a straight path that will run essentially any media you can imagine. The 6x00 series Canons have a 90 degree bend in the path, and the 8x00 series actually requires the media to make a 180 degree turn (as well as loading UNDER the printer - not the most comfortable place to load). Even though a 6x00 series Canon looks similar to an Epson, the Epson printhead is mounted at an angle that allows the paper to run through straight, while the Canon printhead is mounted vertically (as in almost any other inkjet), forcing the paper to turn almost 90 degrees in order to run horizontally under the head. This is a real advantage, especially on odd media (I run silk on a backing sheet through the 7900, which I'd never dare to run on a Canon) - even ordinary paper is much easier to load on the Epsons, though.

3.) The image quality advantage of the 7900/9900 over the previous-generation Canons is substantial - you'll notice it every day, on most landscape images. That isn't really a fair comparison, though - the 3880 should be compared to the previous-generation Canons, and the 7900/9900 to the current (x300/x400 generations). 3880 vs. x100 is very close - I have a lot of experience with both, and I prefer different printers on different prints (the 3880 is NOT especially close to printers that use a more recent inkset, despite some claims). I wish I had more experience with Lucia EX as used in the latest Canons - from the test prints I've seen, it's close to the 7900/9900 inks, but not quite there. Canon does have a better blue, due to the dedicated blue ink. The ideal inkset (that doesn't exist)would seem to be based on Epson's newest, but with Canon's extra blue and no-switch blacks. I've never used (or even seriously looked at samples from) Canon's smaller Pro-1, which uses an extra black level, so I can't comment on that. Some technologies are not available in certain sizes - Epson's 64" 11880 is a major generation behind the rest of the line (it's a giant 3880, without the important orange and green inks), while Canon's 9400 uses the current inkset. At the other end of the line, Epson has the 4900, the only 17" printer with a current inkset.

4.)The 7900/9900 are beautifully built machines (in a way that Canons and the 3880 aren't). It's like looking at a Hyundai (3880) versus a Toyota (Canons) and a Mercedes (7900/9900). I haven't really used 44" Canons all that much (enough to know that I don't like the paper feed, but not the hundreds of prints I have on the others), so I am not sure how much better than the 24" machines they might be built. Canons also have the unfortunate sub-tank system that means the big ones really can't be moved once the ink's in. I think the 6400 now has this issue as well (the 24" machines used to not be an issue).

5.) Match your printer to your camera! A 24" printer wants at least a 24 mp camera, ideally a 36 mp camera. 44" printing really requires 36 mp or more. Conversely, only a 24" or 44" printer will fully utilize the resolution of a high-pixel camera. If you aren't printing big, a modern 16 mp camera (or less) is fine. The current generation of Micro 43 cameras look awfully good on a 3880 on 17x22" paper, while the A7r and D810 need a big printer to show their stuff. Big printers are big commitments - anything bigger than a 3880 is in a different class from desktop printing you may have done.
Logged

Rob Reiter

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 300
    • The LightRoom
Re: Have you switched from Epson to Canon?
« Reply #54 on: December 19, 2014, 12:07:58 pm »

I really wonder why Canon printers have a bad rep for sheet paper usage...I use my 8400 (and 8300 and 8100 before it) with sheets of all sizes constantly. The Paper Askew problem can my fixed simply by placing a finger on either side of the paper as it's being drawn into the printer, as a guide. Problem solved.
Logged
http://www.lightroom.com Fine art printi

Jeff Magidson

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 191
    • Artslides Digital Imaging
Re: Have you switched from Epson to Canon?
« Reply #55 on: December 19, 2014, 02:27:47 pm »

I've been printing on Epson Pro printers for 10+ years. I've also been printing on my Canon ipf8300 for 2.5 years.

1) On the issue of loading sheets on the ipf8300 - Once you get the hang of it, its really easy and very dependable. I load 11x14 & 17x22 sheets all the time and get perfectly even and square borders without any problems.

2) Image quality - my Epson 3880 and my ipf8300 are VERY close in image quality. With good profiles it's really neck and neck. The 3880 has a slightly better dither, only noticeable on glossy paper in smooth areas at VERY close distances or with a loupe.

3) Consistency - My ipf8300 has problems with color consistency over time, this has been a PITA! I haven't seen this mentioned elsewhere. I often make prints for clients and then get orders for reprints many months later. Between the first printing and prints made at a later date there is often a slight but noticeable shift in the neutral areas on the magenta/green axis. One time I was doing a large run of 24"x32" prints of 1 image, and the prints shifted in color (subtle but noticeable) during the run - very frustrating! I didn't change ink carts or anything during the run. My hunch is if the printer determines that the print head(s) needs to be remapped because of a clog, it results in a slight color shift. I've never had this issue with my 2 Epson 3880s. I would love to know if other Canon IPF users have noticed this issue. This issue is enough to make me want to go back to Epson for my next large printer in the future.

Logged
~ Jeff Magidson
Custom Archival Printing
http://artslidesboston.com

deanwork

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 2400
Re: Have you switched from Epson to Canon?
« Reply #56 on: December 19, 2014, 03:52:01 pm »

I do reprints pretty much on a weekly basis and I've had no issues with any color changes over the last 3 years with my 8300.

You do know that you need to recalibrate the printer periodically, especially after replacing heads? If you don't do that the way the inks is being laid down could vary just due to that linearization. It would effect neutral tones first, but because many colors use composite grays along with color mixes a lot of colors could be effected if not brought back in to calibration.

It is a very simple procedure accessible on the printer menu. I do this about every 3 months or so and I have not had to remake any of my  custom icc profiles over this time period. I use the Canon HW Matte media for this.

The coating on some batches of some papers can vary from others. I use the Canson and Hahnemuhle media for the most part and their tolerances are very tight from batch to batch, but other papers do not have such close tolerances. I have seen some color variation with black and white prints back when I was using only Epson printers but I haven't experienced that in a long time with any of modern printers and papers I use now.

john
Logged

Dan Wells

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 1044
Re: Have you switched from Epson to Canon?
« Reply #57 on: December 19, 2014, 09:31:55 pm »

Canon 8300 very close to an Epson 3880? That suggests that the 8300 is also very close to the older Canon 6100... While I have limited experience with the 8300 (I've seen test images, but no more than that), I have extensive experience with both the 6100 and 3880, and they're darned close - if anything, I prefer the 6100 on more images than the 3880 - it varies by image, with the 6100 superior on darker tones, especially blues and the 3880 better in lighter and warmer tones.

I would have thought the 8300 would have been closer to an Epson 7900, which is a clear and visible step above either the 6100 or 3880. Gamut plots show the 9 ink Epsons (3880) very similar to the pre-Lucia EX Canons (6100), and the Lucia EX Canons much closer to the 11 ink Epsons (7900). I can confirm that the 9 ink Epsons are very close to the pre-Lucia EX Canon from many hundreds of prints on both, and that the newest Epsons are a significant step above that level (probably a combination of the higher precision heads and the two extra colors). Since the x300 and x400 Canons are supposed to be a significant step up in image quality from their predecessors, I had mentally placed them in the range of the 7900?
Logged

deanwork

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 2400
Re: Have you switched from Epson to Canon?
« Reply #58 on: December 19, 2014, 10:11:42 pm »

I didn't know the resolution of the Epson 3800 or 3880 was any different than the 9900?

In the Canon line starting with the IPF 8300 the dither was significantly improved. In my opinion when outputting at native resolution these newer Canons are in the same realm as the new Epsons like the 9890. I've done side by side comparisons of monochrome work from super fine grain drum scans and I can't tell them apart on matte media. Haven't tested gloss between them.

 If you look at the print with strong reading glasses or a loupe you can see the dither on the modern Epson large format is a little bit finer out of their driver if your working from a perfect file. But hell, even at fast bi-directional printing that I just did for a big job, the dither on the 8300-8400 is very good indeed.

This is NOT true of the previous models like the 6100-8100-9100. I did find them unacceptable and why I went for the HPZ at that time that has as far as I can see the same resolution as the new Canons. But that has been over 7 years and a lot has happened with everyone's head design ( except HP which has stayed the same, but if it ain't broke don't fix it). You also have to take into consideration that the Piezo heads through the Epson driver is max 2880 while the thermal heads on the Canon and Hp are 2440. If you print through Studio Print with any of these printers you're resolution also increases, and the Epson output is pretty damn amazing with that software, but not many people are going down that road these days, especially for color.

john
« Last Edit: December 20, 2014, 10:34:02 am by deanwork »
Logged

Czornyj

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 1948
    • zarzadzaniebarwa.pl
Re: Have you switched from Epson to Canon?
« Reply #59 on: December 20, 2014, 05:43:24 am »

Epson SPx900 uses much more bright inks than Canon iPFx300, that's why it has slightly smoother dither - here's the same gray patch:


Gamut-wise they're pretty darn close, after I've created custom profiles with exactly same settings the prints were virtually indistinguishable.
Logged
Marcin Kałuża | [URL=http://zarzadzaniebarwa
Pages: 1 2 [3] 4 5 6   Go Up