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Author Topic: Museo Silver Rag with dye ink?  (Read 1182 times)

Some Guy

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Museo Silver Rag with dye ink?
« on: November 24, 2013, 04:44:32 pm »

I noticed on their website the Silver Rag paper was recommended for pigment ink and dye is not mentioned.  ???

I tried it with Jon Cone's dye ink in an Epson 3880 and it seemed okay prior to reading their website, but was wondering if there is some other reason it is not on their recommendation?

I like the paper and want to buy it in 17" rolls, but was wondering if the dye is a problem for whatever reason over pigment?  I prefer the wider gamut of dye with other papers like metallics, glossy, etc.  I'm not that concerned with longevity.  I got zero response from them on the question too.

Thanks.

SG
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MHMG

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Re: Museo Silver Rag with dye ink?
« Reply #1 on: November 24, 2013, 05:38:32 pm »

I noticed on their website the Silver Rag paper was recommended for pigment ink and dye is not mentioned.  ???

I tried it with Jon Cone's dye ink in an Epson 3880 and it seemed okay prior to reading their website, but was wondering if there is some other reason it is not on their recommendation?

I like the paper and want to buy it in 17" rolls, but was wondering if the dye is a problem for whatever reason over pigment?  I prefer the wider gamut of dye with other papers like metallics, glossy, etc.  I'm not that concerned with longevity.  I got zero response from them on the question too.

Thanks.

SG


The reason the manufacturer would recommend pigment and not dye is that the media chemists can tailor microporous silica and alumina pore sizes and binder polymers as well that will result in more optimal results for pigments rather than dyes. However, if initial print quality is to your satisfaction using the media with dyes and you aren't concerned with print permanence then there would seem to be no problem.   Yet the potential print durability problems are dye migration (image bleed) at moderate to high humidity, severe light fastness problems, increased gas fading, etc. Without any testing to validate the dye compatibility, those aspects of overall performance are unknown. Even with pigmented ink sets, media choice has a significant impact on longevity but not as much as the choice of dyes such that someone would quickly notice an image quality problem within a short time in a typical display environment.

My question to you would simply be: Why buy an expensive fine art paper if high print quality over extended time durations is not one of the requirements? Wouldn't a less expensive paper suffice?

cheers,
Mark
http://www.aardenburg-imaging.com
« Last Edit: November 25, 2013, 08:56:26 am by MHMG »
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Some Guy

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Re: Museo Silver Rag with dye ink?
« Reply #2 on: November 25, 2013, 12:37:32 pm »

.....
My question to you would simply be: Why buy an expensive fine art paper if high print quality over extended time durations is not one of the requirements? Wouldn't a less expensive paper suffice?

cheers,
Mark
http://www.aardenburg-imaging.com

The cost of the paper isn't an issue as I often blow through a box of paper tweaking one print.  I just like the weight, color, and texture of its surface so I prefer to use it.  It profiled out quite well with Cone's dye with the i1 PhotoPro 2 also which is sort of why the question was posed.

Personally, I don't care if it lasts 2-4 years since I will undoubtedly will get tired of looking at it by then and take it down and replace it with another (Not a lot of wall space here.).  I tend to print for competitions and judging which isn't that distant for them to fade.  Often I think longevity is sort of overblown for many who print daily and rotate pieces and not pursue gallery sales.  Plus, I can tear it up after that ordeal too if the print bombs with the judge.  ;)

However, I did get a response from Museo on that paper this AM.  Yes, it can be used with dye ink, but it was the longevity issue for much as you stated.  The sidebar was "It is not to be used with solvent-based inks."  I don't who makes those, maybe Cone's K7 or MIS B&W inks are solvent based?  Seemed odd they mentioned that solvent thing as I believe some printers use those inks on that paper.  ???

SG
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rgs

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Re: Museo Silver Rag with dye ink?
« Reply #3 on: November 26, 2013, 10:03:58 pm »

I have not seen this paper but the descriptions I have found make it sound like a hard, glossy type paper. What I sometimes call a bayrta type (even though it may not contain any). If so, my experience with my Canon PRO 100 (a dye photo printer) is that it is the hardest type of paper to use with dye inks. I've tried Ilford Gold Fiber Silk, Canson Platine, Harmon Glossy and some others. They tend to look a bit flat but mostly not have the deep saturation and rich color that dye inks can provide on different surfaces.

Matte fine art type rag papers usually work much better. Canson Rag Photographique is superb. I don't know about fade resistance with rag papers though.

The most reliable papers for dye ink are the RC types. They are also the most permanent. The latest inks will probably outlast us all on these papers.

I know this is not a specific answer but maybe can provide some general assistance. Hope it helps.   
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John Nollendorfs

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Re: Museo Silver Rag with dye ink?
« Reply #4 on: November 27, 2013, 11:31:24 am »

One way to increase the lasting qualities of dyes on microporous papers is to seal the paper with something like Premier spray. Also, displaying the print under glass will help also.
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