Which 60 Inch Printer to choose?

[foto_man]

I would say yes, also HP told us, that "it´s a fast printing machine for poster"

No we don´t have one, but some customers of mine.
HP will not help us, they told us that they do not sell this machine in the FineArt business and it´s only for high volume printer who need a fast printing machine - like poster or canvas.

The scratches - i think the paper was curled and that it had contact with the print head.
We will do some test there and look for the settings, as i said, we have customers who are printing with 6200 on HM Rag 308 with succes.
regards
Oliver

Thanks for the feedback Oliver. Please let me know how the tests come back. It will be a shame if you can't run thicker HM paper thru the machine without getting scratches. I really like the thicker matte HM papers as that is what I will primarily be printing on.

Are your customers that print with it generally happy with the results?

Look what I found:

http://www.hp.com/united-states/tradein/promo/designjet2/citu/index.html?jumpid=va_r10931_go/cashin/lindadj/Nov13/CITUtradein/default

Looks like you can get up to a 3500 dollar rebate if you turn in an eligible printer motherboard and serial number w/the purchase of a 60 inch z6200 before 1/1/2014. Brings the price much closer to the Epson/Canon machines.

[foto_man]

I have used all 3 brands' 60" machines before. But besides the epson's, they were all last generation.

HP Z6100 is a crazy fast machine! with only CMYK+Gray, it is still a very good printer. BUT for RC paper only. I can't use any fine art paper on it such as Hahnemuhle Photo Rag 308. It's too thick and the print head will scratch the paper and jam it right away. The other thing is I don't like it won't cut canvas, which I believe Z6200 would be the same as well. The good side is it has the blackest black on all 3 machines, specially the MK. I used to do a lot of backlit film with it, the black is beautiful, but of course you can't compare it with solvent and uv ink.

the epson is a good printer, good in everything, but it's just a too slow compare to the rest of the 2. the print head is non-changeable and very expensive, so if it dies, that will cost you a lot. But be honest, it last a very long time period.

The canon 9100 is my favorite. actually I've test run the 9400 which is freaking amazing! it is super fast with the new screening technology. actually it reduce the usage of ink compare to the X300/X100 series. The loading path is not as good as the epson, but way better than the HP S curve loading method. 12 color lucia ex ink is beautiful, i'm using the 8300 which uses the same ink set, it's just great.

I'll vote for the 9400, to me, it is a sure winner!

Hi Aaron,

Thanks for the update. Really helpful. I wonder if HP fixed the scratching of the paper in the z6200. I think someone needs to talk to a rep at HP.

May I ask what you were primarily printing? Were they commercial jobs (ie posters/banners/etc...?) or fine art b&w prints?

The Canon seems like a viable option as well. Though I've heard some people complaining that the extended warranty is def. needed as their machine started having problems 6months after the initial warranty period was over (ie a year and a half after they bought the machine).

I really like the reliability and the prints from the z3100. Just so beautiful. If the z6200 can give me 85% of what the z3100 can do but at 60 inches, it's a no brainer.

The main concern I have is the thick matte HM paper that I want to use and can it be put thru the machine.

I think Damir is right: I may have to find a print shop that owns one and run a print thru it to see how it comes out. Or have one of the sales rep print a print for me!

[Wayne Fox]

the epson is a good printer, good in everything, but it's just a too slow compare to the rest of the 2.

I would be curious if you have done actual same quality settings to determine this. I tested speed extensively with a canon 6100 against an Epson 11880.  the problem with the Canon is to get to equivalent settings is a little challenging, but when you do so the Epson is actually faster.  The ipf6400 is actually rated slightly slower then the 6100, I don’t see the 9400 being any faster.

Here’s some results based on 24” paper (the largest the canon could use).

Epson 11880 2880 dpi uni-D, 12.33 sq. ft/hour
Epson 11880 2880 dpi  bi-D, 21.42 sq. ft/hour (increases to 25.5 sq. ft/hr on 60” wide paper)
Epson 11880 1440dpi (uni-D), Microweave on, 23.43 sq. ft/hour
Epson 11880 720dpi (uni-D), Microweave on, 31.47 sq. ft/hour
Epson 11880 1440 dpi bi-D, Microweave on, 33.08 sq. ft/hour
Epson 11880 1440 dpi bi-D, Microweave off, 40.9 sq. ft/hour
Epson 11880 720dpi (bi-D), Microweave on, 43.9 sq. ft/hour
Epson 11880 720dpi (bi-D), Microweave off, 50.56 sq. ft/hour
*Epson 11880 360dpi (bi-D), Microweave on, 116 sq. ft/hour
(all tests are Finest Detail off.  This setting is not designed for photographic images and is not recommended for large files)

Canon ipf6100, 32 pass, 600dpi Highest (uni-D), Precision on, 8.55 sq.ft/hour
Canon ipf6100, 16 pass, 600dpi Highest (uni-D), Precision off, 17.14 sq. ft/hour
Canon ipf6100, 32 pass, 600dpi Highest (biD), Precision on, 17.45 sq.ft hour
Canon ipf6100, 12 pass, 600dpi High (uni-D), 22.22 sq.ft/hour
Canon ipf6100, 16 pass, 600dpi Highest (biD), 34.75 sq/ft hour
Canon ipf6100, 12 pass, 600dpi High (biD), 44.11 sq/ft hour
Canon ipf6100,  8 pass, 600dpi Standard (biD), 66.6 sq ft/hour
*Canon ipf6100, 300dpi Standard (biD), 133.3 sq ft/hour
(Precision is only available at the Highest setting on certain paper types, unless noted precision was off)

*Please note that on both printers the fastest setting is listed as a reference, is a setting I would never use, and is not even available on any high quality paper types.

I believe the Canon driver settings use different nomenclature now.  The challenge with the Canon at the time was the idea of setting the number of passes, which set the vertical resolution.  Only if you used 32 pass did you get 2400 dots in the vertical.

I really don’t care what anyone buys, I have a lot of experience with both.  Canon has marketed it’s “speed” advantage for quite some time, and it just doesn’t hold up.  Against the 7800/9800 yes, but not with current Epson printers.

[Scott Martin]

I tested speed extensively with a canon 6100 against an Epson 11880. 

The problem with that is the the carriage moves faster on the large format Canon's than it does on the small format printers. I think your results are misleading and a comparison with 9100 would have been fair. The x400's are faster than previous printers in that they use fewer passes and newer screening to achieve the same results.

If you really want to compare large format printers you must do so with same size printers. A true 11880 / 9x00 comparison would be more valuable.

[LeLuni]

According to my research prior to making a purchase, the thickest print media you can use with the Z6200 is 20mil.

I just picked up a 60" with the added PS package for just under $3000 delivered. The printer was very low on four of the cartriges, so that will add an additional $600 to the total purchase cost. I waited for three months to finally find the right one on ebay. They are out there if you aren't in a hurry.

John

[foto_man]

According to my research prior to making a purchase, the thickest print media you can use with the Z6200 is 20mil.

I just picked up a 60" with the added PS package for just under $3000 delivered. The printer was very low on four of the cartriges, so that will add an additional $600 to the total purchase cost. I waited for three months to finally find the right one on ebay. They are out there if you aren't in a hurry.

John

Wow, John, thanks for the heads up.

That's a good deal. How may I figure out the thickness of the paper I want to use? I have a fact sheet for one I like. It reads: 0,60.

Will that make it 60mil and thus rendering it unusable by the z6200??

Also, may I ask what you will be using the z6200 for primarily?

[LeLuni]

Upon further review, it is actually 22 mil that is the max thickness, which is just under .6 mm. So your paper is just above the limit.

I make laser cut kid's wall clocks - you can google 'LeLuni' to see them - that I sell mostly through Etsy.

I am branching out into customized and frameable kid's wall art that will complement my clocks. They will be graphic art style, and not really 'photographic' pieces.

I'm actually going to post a thread soon that asks for matte paper recommendations for my needs.

Thanks,
John

[aaronchan]

I started with fine art printing, later on, figured out commercial printing makes a lot more money, so now i'm doing both.

the Z6200 still can't take thick media such as photo rag 308. yes, it is a more like a photo machine but for RC paper only. so just please forget about it if you want to print on rag paper.

Now I've sized down my business into all 44" printers.
But i still got all 3 of them
canon 8300
epson 9880
hp z3200

hp has the best B&W matt print, but this machine is not reliable at all, i've called hp back in 2 years ago and they swapped a new machine for me. the 9880 is an amazing printer, even tho this is old and slow, but it works.

that's the reason why 8300 became my major work horse. big color gamut, super fast, reliable, anything happened to the print head i just swap it by myself. it's the best printer i've ever got!

aaron

[foto_man]

I started with fine art printing, later on, figured out commercial printing makes a lot more money, so now i'm doing both.

the Z6200 still can't take thick media such as photo rag 308. yes, it is a more like a photo machine but for RC paper only. so just please forget about it if you want to print on rag paper.

Now I've sized down my business into all 44" printers.
But i still got all 3 of them
canon 8300
epson 9880
hp z3200

hp has the best B&W matt print, but this machine is not reliable at all, i've called hp back in 2 years ago and they swapped a new machine for me. the 9880 is an amazing printer, even tho this is old and slow, but it works.

that's the reason why 8300 became my major work horse. big color gamut, super fast, reliable, anything happened to the print head i just swap it by myself. it's the best printer i've ever got!

aaron

Thanks for the input Aaron. Is this with the z6100 you had the problem? Have you used the z6200 yet? Or is it just an assumption based on the previous model of the printer.

Did you speak to anyone at HP about the printing on photorag? Perhaps they updated it with the newer model machine.