More on "selfie"

[Rob C]

1.  So what exactly is standard English then Rob?

2.  And 'Selfie' is a pretty precise way of describing 'an amateurish self portrait taken by the subject whilst still holding the camera either pointing back at themselves at arm's length or one of themselves reflected in a mirror which also shows the camera being used'. as opposed to 'self portrait', which is a much vaguer term.

1. The English taught in good schools no later than the start of the 60s, or at least before some teachers represented 'alright' and 'allright' as proper words.

2. Selfie, had I not known about the picture connection (thanks to Slobodan), would have suggested something quite else: masturbation, for a start.

;-)

Rob C

[Jim Pascoe]

So what exactly is standard English then Rob?

And 'Selfie' is a pretty precise way of describing 'an amateurish self portrait taken by the subject whilst still holding the camera either pointing back at themselves at arm's length or one of themselves reflected in a mirror which also shows the camera being used'. as opposed to 'self portrait', which is a much vaguer term.

Exactly - the word tells us precisely what the act is. I hate Selfies, but the word quite rightly belongs in the dictionary.  How else do the ignorant get to find out what the word means if it's not in the dictionary?

Jim

[Jim Pascoe]

2. Selfie, had I not known about the picture connection (thanks to Slobodan), would have suggested something quite else: masturbation, for a start.

;-)

Rob C

That's why it needs to be in the dictionary Rob - so old people know what it means!!

By the way - my mother in law still thinks 'okay' is not a word.  And my wife cringes if I ever use 'gotten'.

Jim

[RSL]

The word "selfie" is the kind of trash slang that comes and goes. A few years -- very few -- down the road nobody will even remember it.

[Jim Pascoe]

The word "selfie" is the kind of trash slang that comes and goes. A few years -- very few -- down the road nobody will even remember it.

But really Russ, how can a word that is in such current use not be in the dictionary?  Words get removed from the dictionary regularly if they are deemed to have fallen out of use, and new ones go in.  I think that is a good thing personally.

Jim

[RSL]

I don't have a problem with any word going into the dictionary, Jim. But why add a slang word that's going to disappear shortly? Have you listened to any teenagers lately? There's a whole vocabulary that is born, lives a very short life, and dies with every new generation. Part of the reason is that teenage kids always are trying to get a rise out of their parents. If you're in the dictionary business, why respond to that that kind of transience?

[Jim Pascoe]

I'm no expert on this Russ, but surely a dictionary is a living thing, like language.  The English language has and continues to evolve and who is to say which words will or will not last.  Selfie may well die out in the next year or two, or perhaps not.  But if it is in such common usage then I think it should be included.  Lots of words that were once popular slang are still in use, albeit less commonly.

Anyway I have to leave this conversation for now because I have a mountain of work to do!

Jim

[jjj]

2. Selfie, had I not known about the picture connection (thanks to Slobodan), would have suggested something quite else: masturbation, for a start.

Lucky I wasn't eating when I read that or I may have decorated my keyboard with biscuit crumbs! 

[jjj]

I don't have a problem with any word going into the dictionary, Jim. But why add a slang word that's going to disappear shortly? Have you listened to any teenagers lately? There's a whole vocabulary that is born, lives a very short life, and dies with every new generation. Part of the reason is that teenage kids always are trying to get a rise out of their parents. If you're in the dictionary business, why respond to that that kind of transience?

Some slang words become ordinary words after a while and few tend to know the origin. The word in question here, selfie is not teen slang anymore if it ever was in the first place. And usually the reason a word gets added to the dictionary is because it has passed beyond being slang used by a small group. 

The problem with those being defensive about new words is that they probably use a whole host of words that their predecessors did not or use old words in a different way. Many words have come to mean the exact opposite of what they used to or something else entirely.
Plus all words were new sometimes. Objecting to new words is one of the most pointless things imaginable.

[RSL]

You need to read more carefully, Jeremy. I don't object to new words, and I don't object to anybody in the dictionary business putting whatever crap into their dictionaries they want to put into them. What strikes me though is the futility of trying to keep up with adding and deleting transient slang. Seems an awful waste of time and money.

[jjj]

I did read that you didn't mind new words. But was commenting on your dislike of 'slang' being added.
As for complaining about compilers adding words that may be transient, that's like complaining about a doctor performing medicine.
Dictionaries are updated to reflect current language usage. They are not much use otherwise and if a word falls out of favour, dictionaries should note that. Also worth bearing in mind that when people read books from an earlier era, a dictionary that has definitions of words that are no longer commonly used is very, very useful.

[RSL]

Also worth bearing in mind that when people read books from an earlier era, a dictionary that has definitions of words that are no longer commonly used is very, very useful.

Good point, Jeremy. I have a very old Webster down here in Florida and it's come in handy more than once for that very purpose.

[Rob C]

That's why it needs to be in the dictionary Rob - so old people know what it means!!

By the way - my mother in law still thinks 'okay' is not a word.  And my wife cringes if I ever use 'gotten'.

Jim

I think I like your mother-in-law; your wife has God on her side. 'Gotten' is so ugly!

Russ is probably right: who, other than I just now, has ever used 'daddio' lately? 'Cool' has been modified beyond recognition - no - expanded so far that it means absolutely everything and, consequently, nothing. Much like 'nice', then, another word with no real meaning at all.

Strict discipline - backbone etc. etc. We need it badly. Look what happened to the finance business when that sensibility became lost, abandoned and ultimately mocked?

Rob C

[jjj]

I think I like your mother-in-law; your wife has God on her side. 'Gotten' is so ugly!

When I first moved up North in the UK [which is actually in the centre of the country], I used to wince when people said "I'll be working while 5 o'clock" as elsewhere people work until 5pm. I'm used to it now, but still don't use it. Amusingly [to me] it seems that Windows computers have a Northern feel to them, as they say "please wait while your computer shuts down". 

I always find it a bit ironic when Brits complain about Americanisms such as 'gotten', because American English is actually much closer to old English than British English is for one reason or another. Gotten being a prime example and period [in the full stop sense], another word people complain about used to be used in the UK but then fell out of favour for a while and is now seen [by some] as a horrid Americanism.

I read a piece by the author Joe Haldeman about the writing of a story he set in the mid 1800s and the unusual problem he encountered. A lot of the language that was used then had fallen out of favour and then more recently back into favour. This meant if he was truly accurate in the words he used, then it would seem wrong as a lot of the words are now seen as modern inventions.

[Rob C]

When I first moved up North in the UK [which is actually in the centre of the country], I used to wince when people said "I'll be working while 5 o'clock" as elsewhere people work until 5pm. I'm used to it now, but still don't use it. Amusingly [to me] it seems that Windows computers have a Northern feel to them, as they say "please wait while your computer shuts down".  

I always find it a bit ironic when Brits complain about Americanisms such as 'gotten', because American English is actually much closer to old English than British English is for one reason or another. Gotten being a prime example and period [in the full stop sense], another word people complain about used to be used in the UK but then fell out of favour for a while and is now seen [by some] as a horrid Americanism.

I read a piece by the author Joe Haldeman about the writing of a story he set in the mid 1800s and the unusual problem he encountered. A lot of the language that was used then had fallen out of favour and then more recently back into favour. This meant if he was truly accurate in the words he used, then it would seem wrong as a lot of the words are now seen as modern inventions.

Thanks, jjj, that's a very good explanation of why the purity of language should remain sacrosant! Them Frenchies ain't as daft as they's made out to be! ;-)

Le weekend indeed!

Rob C

[louoates]

The word is a good one as it refers not to just a self portrait, but to a particular and rather odd arm contortion as well;  holding the small camera as far as the arm allows, then cocking the wrist awkwardly to point the camera back toward the body. Maybe "wristie" should be the first proper synonym.

[Rob C]

The word is a good one as it refers not to just a self portrait, but to a particular and rather odd arm contortion as well;  holding the small camera as far as the arm allows, then cocking the wrist awkwardly to point the camera back toward the body. Maybe "wristie" should be the first proper synonym.

There are ergonomic lessons in it for Samsung: putting the 'shutter release' as a sensitive area on the edge of the screen is the most stupid option anyone could have selected to implement. I'd have thought they would have realised from a century of precedent that a release should be a proper, physical thing that you can feel, and that it should always go on the top, despite the silly alternatives suggested by some early slr makers. Anyone remember the extended diaphragm control/shutter release on the sides of some lenses made for Exakta? Drove me mad. Who knew it was to be a classic?

Rob C

[jjj]

The word is a good one as it refers not to just a self portrait, but to a particular and rather odd arm contortion as well;  holding the small camera as far as the arm allows, then cocking the wrist awkwardly to point the camera back toward the body. Maybe "wristie" should be the first proper synonym.

Except selfies [as noted in my definition above] are frequently taken in a mirror.
In fact if you put 'selfie' into google images, most of the shots are with camera facing mirror.

[jjj]

Thanks, jjj, that's a very good explanation of why the purity of language should remain sacrosant!

Really!?! I can't tell if you are being sarcastic as the post was about how utterly daft it is to be precious about language purity.
Particularly as English is a Germanic language with a plethora of French words shoved into it. Not to mention a whole heap of adopted words from the various countries we invaded. Which is an awful lot of countries! The very few white countries being places we didn't attack/invade/colonise.




Though whilst researching this I discovered the UK and Sweden were once at war.
This is what happened.....

[Jim Pascoe]

Really!?! I can't tell if you are being sarcastic as the post was about how utterly daft it is to be precious about language purity.
Particularly as English is a Germanic language with a plethora of French words shoved into it. Not to mention a whole heap of adopted words from the various countries we invaded. Which is an awful lot of countries! The very few white countries being places we didn't attack/invade/colonise.




Though whilst researching this I discovered the UK and Sweden were once at war.
This is what happened.....

Is that all?  I though the Empire covered the entire Earth, the US still has some catching up to do!