Epson 9900 blockages - really need some advice

[BashHeadWallRepeat]

Hi everyone

This is my first post here and reading the forums it seems to be one of the most knowledgeable place on the internet for wide format printers so I hope someone can help with our predicament.


The background:

I run a micro business with my partner in the UK and we invested in an Epson 9900 when it first came out and have been using it for all our printing requirements since.

However a few days ago the yellow ink became clogged and about the bottom third of the nozzle check pattern wouldn't print.

We have run cleaning, power cleaning, cleaning colour pairs (and virtually drained an almost new LLK in the process!) and nothing has worked.

After some research (here and elsewhere) we read that Windex with it's ammonia-d formula is generally considered the thing to clean it, so after some trouble sourcing it in the UK we have tried that...and no joy, in fact it's got worse!

We also ordered some ammonia and isopropyl alcohol in case the Windex didn't work and my partner is currently mixing up a solution of 50% water, 25% IPA, 25% ammonia in the hopes of blasting it clear with a strong solution (we don't hold out much hope).


My question:

What do we do if this solution doesn't work?

I presume it would be a case of contacting a technician to come and look at it and fix it themselves. The one place I knew of in the North West UK that has Epson technicians (McLink Media) has gone out of business some time ago so we are now looking at calling people from further afield and the charges look to be huge.

From my reckoning and research so far I think:

Callout charges range from £200-£400 depending where they come from.

The printhead for me to buy...hard to find, but I found it in Germany which came to around £1164 with delivery...I don't know if I'd have to pay import duty on that.

If I just paid the technician for the parts etc., the costs would go up further with their mark up...we are probably looking close to £2000 to repair this printer.

My main concern is I have no way of knowing that this problem won't happen again in the future sinking another huge amount of money into fixing the same problem again.


It's made me think slightly differently (this may be a crazy thought, I'm not sure)...


I'm considering, rather than drop that amount of money on repairing a problem that could well occur again from all I've been reading I'm considering changing the printer for a Canon iPF6400.

I know it's only a 24” printer but in all honesty we don't often print much that's bigger than 24” anyway, the idea was long term cost savings by buying bigger.

The main advantage with the Canon is it wouldn't cost that much more to buy new than repair the exiting printer (by my reckoning) and crucially the print heads are user replaceable and a lot cheaper to replace!

I know it opens another whole can of worms...are the colours as good, are the black and whites / sepias as good, etc...but at the moment I'm panicking and looking for a solution – fast!



So you knowledgeable lot, what do you think?

Is there anything else I can do to repair this rather than call a technician out?

Can you recommend anywhere in the UK for Epson large format repairs, or do you have an idea of the costs?


Should I bite the bullet and just get a new Canon iPF6400?

Any thoughts, advice or insight anyone can provide will be really appreciated!


Thanks very much in advance.



*edited for typos and clarification*

[BobDavid]

I am in the exact same boat. The yellow channel started going a few weeks ago. I've probably blown 200 mls of ink trying to declog it. I am going to try the Windex trick today. If that doesn't work, I'm seriously thinking about changing printer brands. I've been a loyal Epson fan for 11 years. I have had the printer repaired once already. The Epson guy said it would cost anywhere from $500 to $1900 to fix.

[Ken Doo]

Maybe try the cleaning fluids from American Inkjet Systems:  http://www.americaninkjetsystems2.com/store1/cleaning_fluid_for_all_inkjet_printers.html
or Jon Cone's Piezoflush:  http://shopping.netsuite.com/s.nl/c.362672/sc.18/category.31348/.f

You could try an INIT FILL to see if that would get the yellow channel moving again, but imo, when half the channel drops on a nozzle check as you've described, it doesn't sound good.

You might as well start with changing the wiper blade assembly (cheap); clean/replace capping station; replace dampers; and finally the head.  This seems to be the approach anyway of an Epson service tech, to replace separate assemblies and see if that solves the issue.

ken

[Farmer]

Have you tried calling Epson directly?

[BashHeadWallRepeat]

Thanks for the replies everyone, it's been a bit of a stressful day.


Well the solution of water 50%, IPA 25% and ammonia 25% has managed to shift the extra blockage that the yellow was suffering but it's still showing virtually the same blockage as it was before it got worse after using the Windex trick.

That's what I'm worried about BobDavid - that I shell out a huge amount on repairs and it goes again a few months down the line.

Thanks very much for those links kdphotography. but I'm in the UK, shipping would take ages and I'm under a bit of pressure to sort this as soon as possible.

I haven't as yet Farmer, ringing Epson is on my list of things to do on Monday, along with ringing as many printer repairers as I can find and try to get some estimation of cost for a repair.

I'm certainly not hopeful with ringing Epson UK, they are as much use as a chocolate teapot when I've rung them in the past asking for extra negative holders for my scanners...they either didn't have them in stock, tried to sell them at extortionate prices or sent the wrong ones...should be a barrel of laughs on Monday.

[davidh202]

Your moniker is perfect!
Sorry I feel for you and I hate to be blunt, but after all is said and done, you have probably already done too much damage to the head by too many repeated cleaning cycles in a row (power cleans especially) , and the Y channel is destroyed. Be prepared to either pay for servicing and replacement of the head and possibly other costly parts, or buy a new printer and avoid the heartache, if Epson UK is that bad! If you have nothing better to do for a few hours (days), read this thread for entertainment value...
http://www.luminous-landscape.com/forum/index.php?topic=61585.0   and you will then "bash head wall repeat"

If the printer is not under warrantee any more , the printer is more than 3 years old, and nothing you have done has made any change at all in the nozzle pattern for the Y channel, don't waste your time unless you can purchase a head and replace it yourself !
David

[BrianWJH]

Well the solution of water 50%, IPA 25% and ammonia 25% has managed to shift the extra blockage that the yellow was suffering but it's still showing virtually the same blockage as it was before it got worse after using the Windex trick.
I'm certainly not hopeful with ringing Epson UK, they are as much use as a chocolate teapot when I've rung them in the past asking for extra negative holders for my scanners...they either didn't have them in stock, tried to sell them at extortionate prices or sent the wrong ones...should be a barrel of laughs on Monday.

I noticed that the head cleaning attempts have only been performed over a short period of time, it's best to wet an absorbent link-free paper towel with the cleaning solution and park the head on it overnight at least, usually takes a good soaking to work, repeat if necessary before giving up.

Brian.

[Paul2660]

+1 on the Eric post that was referenced earlier.  In that post Eric states the process to replace the head, (not an easy task) and also references the cleaning fluid recommended by Epson, (towards the end of the post).   It's most likely you either have damaged part of the yellow nozzles or have a defective damper. 

The only help I could offer additionally is to attempt a pairs cleaning from service mode.  This is a much more efficient and cost effective way to clean.  I would only attempt a CL4 or CL3 1 or 2 times.  If that still doesn't fix it, odds are the nozzles effected are damaged.  It does seem that a lot of head cleaning can damage the nozzles.    I always clean a clog from service mode as you so much more control over the level of the cleaning, i.e. level 1-4.  Most times you only need level 1. 

As you are in the UK (assuming this by pounds instead of dollars) you still should call in Epson and get an estimate on the cost of the head replacement.  If that is attempted they also need to replace the dampers.   More then likely Epson will send all the parts but the tech will start the process by replacement of the dampers.   If the head is replaced the hard part is the software realignment process which requires very specific Epson software.  This was a first on the 9900,7900 family as older printers the head replacement was much more end user friendly.  The last time I read anything about costs, the total cost for the Epson service provider to replace a 9900/7900 head is close to 2K U.S.  About 1/2 the cost of the printer new.  In the U.S. you only get a 90 warranty on any type repair (outside the base 1 year warranty or extended warranty period).  For the cost and only a 90 guarantee, you might want to consider a new printer. 

Hopefully it will be a damper issue not the head.

Paul Caldwell

[Farmer]

If the blockage has moved (that's what you seem to be saying) then it's likely that the head has not itself failed but rather just has something blocking it or it's not cleaning properly - both of which should be recoverable.

[BashHeadWallRepeat]

Thank you everyone for your posts, I thought I'd update this thread with the latest, I've included that below the post answers...I have a solution!

In reply to your posts:

davidh202 - I don't think it's damaged, I have no way of knowing but the blockage hasn't shifted either way.

BrianWJH - we did leave it soaking overnight which unfortunately didn't help at all.

Paul2660 - thank you for your detailed reply, we tried a SSCL following your suggestions which didn't help at all, I have called Epson UK this morning and I've updated the thread below with the outcome.

Farmer - the blockage hasn't shifted, it got worse weirdly after doing the Windex trick and then has gone back to exactly where it was before, so it got worse, then better, but only back to the original blockage.


The update...

I've rung Epson UK this morning and got through to a very helpful chap in large format tech support. They have an 0871 tech support number which is 10p per minute but if you ring 01952 607100 it puts you through to exactly the same place and is a standard geographical call. 

He said it sounded like the print head was blocked but obviously couldn't say for definite. He gave me two options:

1.
Send an engineer out
Replace the part/s
90 day guarantee
Standard price of £1200 including VAT at 20%

2.
Send an engineer out
Replace the part/s
12 month warranty
Includes a maintenance service which I can redeem any time within the 12 month period for changing things like wiper blades etc.
£1500 including VAT at 20%.

I've gone for option 2, having the printer under full warranty for that amount of time including call out charges and replacement parts sounds like quite a good deal to me...well, it's still hellishly expensive but not as expensive as all the other prices I've been looking at!

So I'm now waiting for an engineer to call to arrange an appointment hopefully for tomorrow so fingers crossed they contact me later today!

[Paul2660]

Sounds like option 2 is a good deal 12 month warranty. 

One question, you mentioned you ran a SSCL, (super strong cleaning cycle).  In my post I was referring to running a CL3 or CL4 on the yellow and Light black pair while under service mode. 

The reason I use service mode for all pairs cleaning is that you have much more control over the ink being used.  From the normal mode you can run a pairs cleaning, but you don't have any control as it just uses one setting.  Where as in Service mode, you are offered CL1 through CL4.  I rarely need anything past a CL1 when I see a clog on my 9900. 

Sounds like you have a plan in place and the price for repair is pretty reasonable considering you are getting the parts and the 12 month warranty.  In the US the cost of the 1 year warranty extension is around $775.00 for one year.

Paul Caldwell

[BashHeadWallRepeat]

Hi there

It's certainly not brilliant due to the cost involved but it's far less than scrapping it and going for a 24" Canon 6400 which was going through my mind if this was going to cost thousands to repair.

My partner did all the cleaning and decided that based on the evidence we had of the clog, the push/pull way the CL1-4 cleaned and the way it would have clogged (she consulted with her Dad who is a materials engineer and his knowledge of fine particles in suspension), could have made the problem worse by backing up behind the clog.

An SSCL uses the piezo electric parts in the print head to "wiggle it out" (her common way of explaining it to me!)...it didn't work though.

I'm happy enough now with what we've got, we have an Epson engineer coming tomorrow morning (he's already rung to confirm) and hopefully from tomorrow afternoon onwards I can get back to work and clear the backlog of printing work we have in...I'm far too stressed at the moment, the sooner I have a solution the better!

[Farmer]

Understand now about the level of blockage - so yes it would definitely be a faulty head.  The 12 month warranty option is a good one.  Hope it all works out!

[BashHeadWallRepeat]

Thanks, it did work out!

The Epson engineer came yesterday and changed the print head first which is what the problem was, it printed a nozzle check perfectly after that had been changed! He changed the wiper blades as well and generally checked it was calibrated and running successfully.

So all good really, it's in full warranty for another 12 months which was included in the price so I'm quite pleased all in all (not pleased at having to fork out £1500), but the job is done at least and we can print again. *Phew*

One strange thing I noticed when going through the options was the page count button. I asked him what does page count refer to...what size paper?

He said he didn't know and every training course they go on they ask what it means and no-one seems able to tell them, it seems to be an Epson Japan thing...

Anyone else know? Is Epson US more forthcoming with what size paper it refers to?

[Mike Guilbault]

I don't believe it refers to any particular size.  AFAIK, each job it prints is a page.  So a single 8x10 is a page, and 20 8x10s in a single 'output' is also a page.  Not really useful as far as i've been able to determine.

[davidh202]

I said the head was shot! Glad your up and running again
David

[Farmer]

Mike is right - that's why the count isn't very useful.  You can use it to roughly estimate usage if you know what your breakdown of media sizes used happens to be (since you could work out an average).

[Roscolo]

Just reading your post made me cringe...I remember such days with my Epsons. Clogging problems such as this the one you are experiencing is why I stopped using Epsons years ago. Love the lack of clogging on the Canon ipf8300 and HP z3100. And the printheads on both are user replaceable.