HM Photo Rag Pearl vs CI Platine Fibre Rag

[stevenarnott]

I've just recently moved out of my wet darkroom into Photoshop and inkjet printers, so if I say something particularly stupid (average stupid is just normal for me), please take it easy on me.

I have an aversion to RC paper, going back to the introduction of plastic-coated photo papers in, what, the '70's? But it seems that most of the paper we're told to use (now as then) is resin-coated, so I gave it a try. They're actually not too bad; much less offensive than what I've used for contact sheets in a wet darkroom.

But... the RC stuff just doesn't have the feel of paper-paper, so...

I've learned a lot over the past several months about the differences between glossy/semi-gloss/lustre papers and matte papers, and between Photo Black (PK) and Matte Black (MK). I've always preferred "F" glossy suface over a matte surface in silver halide papers, and I find that that preference has carried over to the inkjet world. The matte surface just looks so... dull, and the blacks don't look rich and deep.

So off I went, on a quest to find inkjet paper to take the place of Ilford MGIV and MGFB. The replacement paper (or papers; there are so many to choose from!) would have a semi-gloss or lustre surface, be cotton or alpha-cellulose based, not contain any optical brightening agents (OBA's), use photo black ink, and not have any terrible curling problems. Oh, and if it happened to smell like a box of MGFB when first opened <sigh>, that would be a plus.

After reading everything I could find on candidate papers, and after trying most of the papers I received in all those sample packs I ordered from B&H, I narrowed it down to two papers: Hahnemühle Photo Rag Pearl and Canson Infinity Platine Fibre Rag. I ordered a box and a roll of each. Received paper yesterday, and have been printing like a crazy person since.

They are wonderful papers that have much in common. They feel like real paper, the whites are clean and the blacks are rich enough to sink your elbow into them (as the late Fred Picker would say), and they both have a sheen that's just beautiful. The Canson paper's surface is slightly glossier than the Hahnemühle paper, but they're both gorgeous. I love them both.

But what is up with the difference in price between these two papers that are so similar in every other way? Platine Fibre Rag is not inexpensive by any means, but at USD 1.54 per sq ft, it's less than two-thirds the price of Photo Rag Pearl, which currently sells for USD 2.37 per sq ft. I'm comparing the B&H price of a 17" x 50' roll of the Canson paper to a 17" x 39' roll of the Hahnemühle paper.

As I said, they are both beautiful papers, and I would happily use either of them to print anything that doesn't need highly-saturated colors, or the "pop" of a really bright white (which would require the use of an OBA). But given the quality of the Canson Infinity Platine Fibre Rag, I'd have to be an idiot to spend half again as much for the Hahnemühle Photo Rag Pearl.

Thoughts? Any idea why the Photo Rag Pearl is so expensive?

[JohnBrew]

I guess you can call me an idiot because I use Photo Rag Pearl in sheets and rolls. It's a superior paper that pushes all the right buttons with me. I have never tried the Canson. I'm sure it's a wonderful paper also.

[Alan Goldhammer]

I've learned a lot over the past several months about the differences between glossy/semi-gloss/lustre papers and matte papers, and between Photo Black (PK) and Matte Black (MK). I've always preferred "F" glossy suface over a matte surface in silver halide papers, and I find that that preference has carried over to the inkjet world. The matte surface just looks so... dull, and the blacks don't look rich and deep.

You might want to also try Museo Silver Rag.  I prefer it to the Canson paper and in my testing it gave a darker black and better results in B/W printing (Epson 3880 using the ABW driver).

[stevenarnott]

I guess you can call me an idiot because I use Photo Rag Pearl in sheets and rolls. It's a superior paper that pushes all the right buttons with me. I have never tried the Canson. I'm sure it's a wonderful paper also.

See, my first post, and already I've said something particularly stupid! <sigh>

Sorry, I don't mean to denigrate anyone, and I think everyone who uses either of these wonderful papers is to be commended for having excellent taste in paper. I wish my images were good enough to fully exploit the capabilities of either of them.

Give the Platine Fibre Rag a try some day!

[stevenarnott]

You might want to also try Museo Silver Rag.  I prefer it to the Canson paper and in my testing it gave a darker black and better results in B/W printing (Epson 3880 using the ABW driver).

Curse you, Alan! Yet another paper to obsess about! 

Thanks for the tip, I'll be sure to try some. I'd read good things about Museo Silver Rag, but decided to just compare two papers at a time.

[howardm]

I personally didnt care for the feel of Silver Rag but paper selection is such a personal/artistic choice.  Try it and see!

[JohnBrew]

I tried Museo Silver Rag for bw, but found some metamerism using Epson inks. Lovely blacks, though. For 8" x 10" bw, I only use Ilford GFS. Anything larger gets Hahnemuhle. The absolute loveliest paper, imo, for bw is Harmon, but it has so many other problems I find it not worth the trouble. I still have a box of 11 x 17 that I use for proofs for time to time.

[rgs]

You didn't mention your printer or what you're printing.  I say that because the baryta fiber type of paper usually works better with pigment inks than with dye. I might also mention that, once they're behind glass, many of the better satin or semi-gloss papers do not look like older wet RC papers. I use a dye printer (Canon PRO 100) and mostly use either matte rag papers or RC papers. I usually avoid extremely glossy surfaces although some of them are really good with very rich tones.

If you're printing B&W, take a good look at Ilford Galerie Prestige Gold Mono Silk. It's made just for B&W and does it beautifully, even with dye inks.

As to cost, I have never had explained to me to my satisfaction why inkjet papers are typically more expensive than wet papers. They have no silver in them, no emulsion to be concerned with and manufacturing doesn't need to be in dark rooms.

I haven't used the Hahnemule or Museo papers, but Canson Platine is beautiful, even with dye inks.

[hugowolf]

I tried Museo Silver Rag for bw, but found some metamerism using Epson inks.

What does that mean??? There is metamerism with any two colors.

Are you talking about bronzing?

Brian A

[stevenarnott]

You didn't mention your printer or what you're printing.  

I'm using an Epson 3880 to print (mostly) color pano's, like this:

If you're printing B&W, take a good look at Ilford Galerie Prestige Gold Mono Silk. It's made just for B&W and does it beautifully, even with dye inks.

Thanks, I'll give it a try.

As to cost, I have never had explained to me to my satisfaction why inkjet papers are typically more expensive than wet papers. They have no silver in them, no emulsion to be concerned with and manufacturing doesn't need to be in dark rooms.

And nowadays, the sales volume of inkjet papers is far higher than that of silver gelatin papers, so... I really don't know. Maybe I'll ask Simon Galley from Harman/Ilford about it over on APUG (if I can even ask a question like that over there).

I haven't used the Hahnemule or Museo papers, but Canson Platine is beautiful, even with dye inks.

I haven't used Museo yet, but the Canson Platine and Hahnemühle Photo Rag Pearl are both gorgeous.

Regards,
Steve

[W.T. Jones]

You didn't mention your printer or what you're printing.  I say that because the baryta fiber type of paper usually works better with pigment inks than with dye. I might also mention that, once they're behind glass, many of the better satin or semi-gloss papers do not look like older wet RC papers. I use a dye printer (Canon PRO 100) and mostly use either matte rag papers or RC papers. I usually avoid extremely glossy surfaces although some of them are really good with very rich tones.

If you're printing B&W, take a good look at Ilford Galerie Prestige Gold Mono Silk. It's made just for B&W and does it beautifully, even with dye inks.

Is the Ilford Gold Mono silk a coated paper that uses Photo Black ink or matte for Matte Black ink?  I looked, but could not determine that from the Ilford web site. (I probably looked right at the information and missed it).

I too like the Platine fibre rag on my 3880 for B&W prints. And Baryta Photographique for Color prints. I also like the Ilford GFS for color prints as well, but the Canson is my favorite.

[stevenarnott]

Is the Ilford Gold Mono silk a coated paper that uses Photo Black ink or matte for Matte Black ink?  I looked, but could not determine that from the Ilford web site. (I probably looked right at the information and missed it).

The profile you can download from Ilford's site for Gold Mono Silk specifies an Epson Media Type of Premium Glossy Photo Paper (PGPP), so I guess it uses Photo Black, right?

[W.T. Jones]

The profile you can download from Ilford's site for Gold Mono Silk specifies an Epson Media Type of Premium Glossy Photo Paper (PGPP), so I guess it uses Photo Black, right?

Steve, That would answer the question yes. I never thought to look at the profiles, I was looking at the product page & specs & did not see it.

Thank you.

[rgs]

Is the Ilford Gold Mono silk a coated paper that uses Photo Black ink or matte for Matte Black ink?  I looked, but could not determine that from the Ilford web site. (I probably looked right at the information and missed it).

I too like the Platine fibre rag on my 3880 for B&W prints. And Baryta Photographique for Color prints. I also like the Ilford GFS for color prints as well, but the Canson is my favorite.

Gold Mono Silk is a hard glossy surface like an air dried F in B&W darkroom papers. Since I use a Canon PRO 100 (dye ink), I am not well aquanited with the Epson black inks but I think I might try the Photo Black first. In general, the Baryta type papers are the most difficult type to print well with dye inks but the the Ilford Gold Mono Silk is a remarkable exception with B&W. It just sings. Unfortunately GFS has not worked so well for me. I have yet to find a Baryta type paper that prints color really well with dye inks. Canson Platine and GFS come close, but RC papers still look better.

[W.T. Jones]

Gold Mono Silk is a hard glossy surface like an air dried F in B&W darkroom papers. Since I use a Canon PRO 100 (dye ink), I am not well aquanited with the Epson black inks but I think I might try the Photo Black first. In general, the Baryta type papers are the most difficult type to print well with dye inks but the the Ilford Gold Mono Silk is a remarkable exception with B&W. It just sings. Unfortunately GFS has not worked so well for me. I have yet to find a Baryta type paper that prints color really well with dye inks. Canson Platine and GFS come close, but RC papers still look better.

Thanks RGS,

I just happen to have a Pixma Pro -100 sitting unused in the box on my office floor I got for basically free this past summer with the recent promotions Canon was running. I have ordered a box of letter sized Gold Mono Silk & I am going to give it a try on some B&W images. Might as well use the printer for something. Thanks for the inspiration.

Of course I will run it through the 3880 as well, winter is coming…I'll need something to do!

[stevenarnott]

BTW, on the subject of the price difference between Platine Fibre Rag and Photo Rag Pearl, it's nowhere near as large a difference in sheets as it is in rolls. Canson offers substantial discounts (on a price per sq ft basis) when you buy a 50' roll, rather than a box of 25 sheets. Hahnemühle's discount for buying its 39' rolls is far less substantial.

[robgo2]

You might want to also try Museo Silver Rag.  I prefer it to the Canson paper and in my testing it gave a darker black and better results in B/W printing (Epson 3880 using the ABW driver).

Museo Silver Rag is very warm and has a more pronounced surface texture than either Platine or PRP.  It's worth trying but definitely not to everyone's taste.

I print mostly on matte papers, but when I do use glossy, it is on Platine.  It is very similar to PRP and a better value.  I have had some issues with bent corners on sheets in the box.

Rob