Pages: [1] 2   Go Down

Author Topic: Thom Hogan's thoughtful take on the Df  (Read 20653 times)

Codger

  • Jr. Member
  • **
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 85
Thom Hogan's thoughtful take on the Df
« on: November 07, 2013, 11:19:51 am »

Every new product from an established manufacturer prompts a flurry of reactions and reviews.  We've all seen the dismissive, disappointed, "if only" remarks the past few days.  In today's essay, Thom thoughtfully and, I think, fairly, puts the new Df in perspective.  What do you think?
http://www.dslrbodies.com/newsviews/what-nikon-got-right.html
Logged

Telecaster

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 3686
Re: Thom Hogan's thoughtful take on the Df
« Reply #1 on: November 07, 2013, 01:46:23 pm »

Yeah, that's fair enough. I hope Nikon delivers on that Next Big Thing Thom is hoping for if not exactly predicting. Lotsa companies innovating while battling it out in the marketplace...that's good and healthy.

-Dave-
Logged

AlfSollund

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 168
Re: Thom Hogan's thoughtful take on the Df
« Reply #2 on: November 07, 2013, 04:19:04 pm »

Not to dismiss Thom, but I preferred our man Kens more...objective outlook on Df:

 "Oh my gosh, I can't even see through my own tears to write this. Nikon has made us a Nikon FE with the digital guts of the D4!
You'd better cover your ears, because when my D800E hits the dumpster, it's going to hit so hard that the sound will be deafening!"

http://www.kenrockwell.com/nikon/df.htm

P.S. Don't bother to bash Ken, neither he nor I will respond  ;D ;)
Logged
-------
- If your're not telling a story with photo you're only adding noise -
http://alfsollund.com/

jduncan

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 434
Re: Thom Hogan's thoughtful take on the Df
« Reply #3 on: November 09, 2013, 02:58:59 pm »

Every new product from an established manufacturer prompts a flurry of reactions and reviews.  We've all seen the dismissive, disappointed, "if only" remarks the past few days.  In today's essay, Thom thoughtfully and, I think, fairly, puts the new Df in perspective.  What do you think?
http://www.dslrbodies.com/newsviews/what-nikon-got-right.html


As important :

http://www.dslrbodies.com/newsviews/what-nikon-got-wrong.html

Thanks for sharing.

J. Duncan
Logged
english is not my first language, an I k

PhotoEcosse

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 712
Re: Thom Hogan's thoughtful take on the Df
« Reply #4 on: November 09, 2013, 04:15:59 pm »

T Hogan v K Rockwell.....

Interesting contest for a pantomime.

Oh Yes it is!!

Oh No it's not!!

 ::)
Logged
************************************
"Reality is an illusion caused by lack of alcohol."
Alternatively, "Life begins at the far end of your comfort zone."

rethmeier

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 795
    • http://www.willemrethmeier.com
Re: Thom Hogan's thoughtful take on the Df
« Reply #5 on: November 09, 2013, 07:57:36 pm »

Where's my D4X?
Logged
Willem Rethmeier
www.willemrethmeier.com

Chairman Bill

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 3352
    • flickr page
Re: Thom Hogan's thoughtful take on the Df
« Reply #6 on: November 10, 2013, 05:32:35 am »

Where's my digital FM2n?

dbell

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 131
Re: Thom Hogan's thoughtful take on the Df
« Reply #7 on: November 13, 2013, 04:23:54 pm »

I mostly agree with Thom. It occurs to me that making a "manual" digital camera requires a degree of subtlety that I think Nikon may have missed. The beauty of the FM/FE was that you had nothing but the most essential controls to get in the way: ISO, focus, aperture, shutter speed. A manual digital camera still needs just those most basic controls, accessible in the most direct possible way. The hard part is incorporating anything else that digital users expect (capture modes, metering modes, AF modes, etc, etc, etc) in a way that's not intrusive. Having a dedicated button or dial for EVERYTHING can't work. Some things need to be banished to a menu system. Fuji and Leica come pretty close to hitting the right balance, IMO. Whether Nikon did remains to be seen.

I'm put off of the Df by its size and price. I really wanted a digital FM/FE2.
Logged

AFairley

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 1486
Re: Thom Hogan's thoughtful take on the Df
« Reply #8 on: November 13, 2013, 06:12:40 pm »

I'm put off of the Df by its size and price. I really wanted a digital FM/FE2.

That would be the Sony A7r   ;)
Logged

Codger

  • Jr. Member
  • **
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 85
Re: Thom Hogan's thoughtful take on the Df
« Reply #9 on: November 13, 2013, 07:43:39 pm »

This is a good time for camera shoppers, if not camera buyers.  On this, and other forums and blogs, I keep seeing how "huge" the new Df is.  That's never the first or second thing I think about when I see it.  Bigger than a Minox?  Yep.  Larger than an iPhone?  Sure.  Bigger than an Olympus OM or Sony A7?  A bit.  What strikes me is, it's the "right" size.  Over the past 15 years I've probably shot fewer than 10 frames handheld.  I work with MF 67 film, and slow primes, so a sturdy and substantial part of my 45# kit is my 4-section Gitzo tripod.  Hikes at high elevation have become more arduous.  Maybe it's time for a change.  In the course of studying and handling the current (and recent) generation of FF digitals the past year, I'm struck by how small and light they are.  I know, everything is relative.  However, I think there should be a certain amount of heft to a camera, especially if it's going to be handheld, just to keep it from being "twitchy."  I've seen comments lately about 4/3s  and Nex/A7 owners buying and attaching auxiliary grips that do nothing but give them a better handle on their tiny cameras. That probably won't be an expense or practice for Df owners.  The new Sony twins look promising, but the array of available, fully-compatible lenses isn't fully fleshed out yet.  On the other hand, Nikon's "venerable" mount has an almost uncountable number and variety of good, fast and affordable lenses ready and waiting.  Is it a great camera?  Is ANY camera a great camera?  The answer is dependent on "great at what?"  The Df is essentially a 'tweener.  It doesn't have the jaw-dropping resolution of the D800 twins; isn't as bullet-proof as the D3x; isn't as stealthy and quiet as the Leica RFs; as compact as an RX1r; and so on.  It offers more resolution and adequate throughput over the beloved D700, though, is smaller than a D610; and can be adjusted and preset without raising it and looking through the viewfinder or an illuminated back panel.  For some of us, of a certain age, it actually LOOKS like a camera, rather than a melted bar of black soap.  I'm looking forward to some rigorous reviews and comparison tests.  I hope the IQ (for its sensor category) is top-notch.  I have a feeling that its being the "right" size and looking like a traditional camera are going to motivate a good number of sales.  The price level will temper other decisions and drive some shoppers to D610s, etc.  That's okay.  The actual camera one uses is based on many decisions, and there are lots of good, affordable tools to chose from.  For me, my brain is saying this one is pretty good, and my emotions are saying "try it, you'll really like it."
Logged

barryfitzgerald

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 688
Re: Thom Hogan's thoughtful take on the Df
« Reply #10 on: November 14, 2013, 12:30:59 pm »

They both have some decent points (Thom's been on the rampage lately though I can see why QC issues etc)

Rockwell well why does he have to ruin articles with knuckle headed comments like
"The FE never had one either; built-in flashes are for point and shoots like the Nikon 35Ti"

Sorry Ken but you're missing the point, I use a built in flash to trigger my wireless flashes. No built in flash it's an extra cost to do that.

DF to me is still a disappointment D600 guts shoved into a camera with a retro top plate. It's not been thought out properly and is merely a cash grab on nostalgia IMO
Logged

Rob C

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 24074
Re: Thom Hogan's thoughtful take on the Df
« Reply #11 on: November 14, 2013, 12:52:06 pm »

They both have some decent points (Thom's been on the rampage lately though I can see why QC issues etc)

Rockwell well why does he have to ruin articles with knuckle headed comments like
"The FE never had one either; built-in flashes are for point and shoots like the Nikon 35Ti"

Sorry Ken but you're missing the point, I use a built in flash to trigger my wireless flashes. No built in flash it's an extra cost to do that.

DF to me is still a disappointment D600 guts shoved into a camera with a retro top plate. It's not been thought out properly and is merely a cash grab on nostalgia IMO



Well, no. No film camera I ever used had such a complicated, crowded top plate and that's where it fails so miserably even to look retro.

" "The beauty of the FM/FE was that you had nothing but the most essential controls to get in the way: ISO, focus, aperture, shutter speed. A manual digital camera still needs just those most basic controls, accessible in the most direct possible way." dbell."

Exactly what I've been writing ever since this new damned thing arrived: they missed both the opportunity and the point of what would have made such a camera attractive to many of us older guys with the heritage lenses and mindsets. And there's nothing wrong with either; we simply represent a neglected segment of the market, and to say we are a shrinking one, as if that mattered at a time when the expected life-span of a new camera is a year or so, is simply ridiculous.

Rob C

Kirk Gittings

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 1561
    • http://www.KirkGittings.com
Re: Thom Hogan's thoughtful take on the Df
« Reply #12 on: November 14, 2013, 03:07:14 pm »

T Hogan v K Rockwell.....

Interesting contest for a pantomime.

Oh Yes it is!!

Oh No it's not!!

 ::)

or sock puppets :)
Logged
Thanks,
Kirk Gittings

barryfitzgerald

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 688
Re: Thom Hogan's thoughtful take on the Df
« Reply #13 on: November 15, 2013, 07:13:59 am »


Well, no. No film camera I ever used had such a complicated, crowded top plate and that's where it fails so miserably even to look retro.

" "The beauty of the FM/FE was that you had nothing but the most essential controls to get in the way: ISO, focus, aperture, shutter speed. A manual digital camera still needs just those most basic controls, accessible in the most direct possible way." dbell."

Exactly what I've been writing ever since this new damned thing arrived: they missed both the opportunity and the point of what would have made such a camera attractive to many of us older guys with the heritage lenses and mindsets. And there's nothing wrong with either; we simply represent a neglected segment of the market, and to say we are a shrinking one, as if that mattered at a time when the expected life-span of a new camera is a year or so, is simply ridiculous.

Rob C

I see your point and agree. I guess Nikon got scared about things and took the easy way out.
It's surface dressing from what I can see, esp what's going on with the top plate.

Problem is aperture rings are gone on modern lenses (well most of them) even the ILC's that have them are electronic rather than mechanical apertures.
Someone probably sat down and thought about a really nice manual focus body with a great viewfinder and split image prism. But marketing probably killed that brain storm off quite quickly.

I think Nikon could have gone with a simple, well built MF body minus gimmicks and just the essential manual controls with a digital sensor. I also think they could have done it at a fairly decent price too (this is priced far too high IMO) That wouldn't have been a camera for everyone, but it would have had a unique appeal. Guess they wimped out and decided to try to blend retro bits with modern.

For me I'd rather just have a normal DSLR if that's what is on offer

Logged

jjj

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 4728
    • http://www.futtfuttfuttphotography.com
Re: Thom Hogan's thoughtful take on the Df
« Reply #14 on: November 15, 2013, 09:37:55 am »

Rockwell well why does he have to ruin articles with knuckle headed comments like
"The FE never had one either; built-in flashes are for point and shoots like the Nikon 35Ti"

Sorry Ken but you're missing the point, I use a built in flash to trigger my wireless flashes. No built in flash it's an extra cost to do that.
Rockwell talks a lot of shit. His site is click bait nonsense. He's The Daily Mail of photography sites.
Logged
Tradition is the Backbone of the Spinele

jjj

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 4728
    • http://www.futtfuttfuttphotography.com
Re: Thom Hogan's thoughtful take on the Df
« Reply #15 on: November 15, 2013, 09:41:10 am »

Problem is aperture rings are gone on modern lenses (well most of them) even the ILC's that have them are electronic rather than mechanical apertures..
Nothing to stop them adding a control ring around the lens mount, like many compacts do these days. Or like Olympus did with the shutter dial in The 1970s.
Logged
Tradition is the Backbone of the Spinele

PhotoEcosse

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 712
Re: Thom Hogan's thoughtful take on the Df
« Reply #16 on: November 15, 2013, 09:58:58 am »

Rockwell talks a lot of shit. His site is click bait nonsense. He's The Daily Mail of photography sites.


He may be almost what you suggest - but nothing could possibly be quite as bad as the Daily Mail. (Wonder if our Transatlantic cousins appreciate the significance of that. Maybe substitute USA Today.)
Logged
************************************
"Reality is an illusion caused by lack of alcohol."
Alternatively, "Life begins at the far end of your comfort zone."

Chairman Bill

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 3352
    • flickr page
Re: Thom Hogan's thoughtful take on the Df
« Reply #17 on: November 15, 2013, 10:06:05 am »

Ken is hardly Daily Hatemail quality. He doesn't come across as a misogynistic, xenophobic, homophobic <insert further bigotries of choice here> facist, so I'm prepared to assume he's not Paul Dacre's alter ego

jjj

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 4728
    • http://www.futtfuttfuttphotography.com
Re: Thom Hogan's thoughtful take on the Df
« Reply #18 on: November 15, 2013, 10:54:54 am »

I'm not saying he's the Hitler of photography, it's the style of ignorant writing that The Daily Fail also uses where he is similar.
Logged
Tradition is the Backbone of the Spinele

Christoph C. Feldhaim

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 2509
  • There is no rule! No - wait ...
Re: Thom Hogan's thoughtful take on the Df
« Reply #19 on: November 15, 2013, 11:26:59 am »

Ken has written my camera (Mamiya 7 II) is the best camera of the world, so he can't be that bad. :P
Pages: [1] 2   Go Up