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Author Topic: MF system selection - advise needed  (Read 7361 times)

ErikKaffehr

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Re: MF system selection - advise needed
« Reply #20 on: November 07, 2013, 01:19:49 pm »

Hi,

I think you made it pretty clear, but many of us are in the digital age. I would expect some used digital backs becoming available at half way reasonable prices in the future. So, thinking 'option digital' is a good thing.

Best regards
Erik




i might have not made myself totally clear. my bad.

USD 2000 is for a FILM camera (and a lens or two). a starting point to build up from.
digital option is a subject to additional financing in the future.
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TMARK

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Re: MF system selection - advise needed
« Reply #21 on: November 07, 2013, 01:59:44 pm »

While teh 6008 is incredible, it is very much an electronic camera.  Some models had bugs, some have iffy electrics.  The later models, particularly the 6008AF, were reliable but they are out of your range, I believe.  $1700 -$2000 body only from reputable sellers.

everybody, thanks for the input!
that's a lot of info to process, but i have a big question for the time being - why isn't anyone mentioning Rollei? 6008 looks like a good start, is it not?
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SZRitter

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Re: MF system selection - advise needed
« Reply #22 on: November 07, 2013, 02:02:32 pm »

Hi,

I think you made it pretty clear, but many of us are in the digital age. I would expect some used digital backs becoming available at half way reasonable prices in the future. So, thinking 'option digital' is a good thing.

Best regards
Erik

I've been expecting that for the last couple of years.... MF Digital backs don't seem to drop in price as quick as smaller digital cameras, and if memory serves correct, there have been plenty of buy back programs for them that has most likely kept the market resale value kind of high.

As to the OP, I would look for the form factor/feel that works best for you, and move on from there. If you don't need some of the features and speed digital provides, then shooting a camera like an old TLR can be very rewarding. So, it could be worth it to not worry about the digital path until you are going digital, and just get the camera you love to shoot most.
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Ken R

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Re: MF system selection - advise needed
« Reply #23 on: November 07, 2013, 04:04:54 pm »

i might have not made myself totally clear. my bad.

USD 2000 is for a FILM camera (and a lens or two). a starting point to build up from.
digital option is a subject to additional financing in the future.

I would get this:

http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/800990746-USE/mamiya_215000_7_medium_format_rangefinder.html
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Joe Towner

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Re: MF system selection - advise needed
« Reply #24 on: November 07, 2013, 04:16:14 pm »

Mark,

What are you shooting with now?  What are you shooting?  How involved are you looking to get into developing your own film, or are you planning to send it out?  

For what it's worth, I'd say get a 35mm film camera where you can leverage your existing lenses (if you have any) and spend the balance on B&W film and processing costs - for more than a few months of shooting.  The costs of getting into a medium format camera where you can put a digital back on later can quickly overwhelm folks.  Yes, you can get a Hassey V, but are you going to be killing yourself due to lack of film or processing?  Are you going to be matching this gift out of your own pocket?
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bcooter

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Re: MF system selection - advise needed
« Reply #25 on: November 07, 2013, 04:22:01 pm »

i might have not made myself totally clear. my bad.

USD 2000 is for a FILM camera (and a lens or two). a starting point to build up from.
digital option is a subject to additional financing in the future.

It's your money, but it seems this is also a sentimental buy, something you want to remember for a long time.

I have 4 contax, two digital backs, they're good, still not real cheap even though mine are old in the digital world.   In fact a decent p31 a body two finders and a few lenses is going to be 10 grand if they're in good shape.

To me,  m8 I use more and enjoy more because I can take it places and it works in most settings, other than tethering.





IMO

BC

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MrSmith

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Re: MF system selection - advise needed
« Reply #26 on: November 07, 2013, 05:15:55 pm »

I would steer clear of a 5x4 technika it's a dead end system without the precision movements needed for digital and the lenses to cover film are of no use with a digital back and the film/Polaroid costs and availability are prohibitive.
I would get a 500 H/Blad with 80mm as a start then maybe a 50 or 120/150 if you can afford it. Plenty of 22-39mp backs out there for when you want to move to digital.
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JV

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Re: MF system selection - advise needed
« Reply #27 on: November 07, 2013, 06:18:11 pm »

You should be able to find a used H1 kit for $1.5-2K if you are patient.  Or a body for around $1K and then buy the other pieces separately.

Used H backs are probably the cheapest of all mounts and for not so much more than a DCS back you could probably buy a much better P21+/P25+/P30+ back.

At a later stage you could also upgrade your H1 to a H4x and have the most recent MF body (together with the Hy6) that allows both film and digital.

The Rollei 6008AF is probably a very good film platform but as a digital platform you are limited to a number of older backs of which I don't know whether they are still supported.

You could buy a Rollei 6008AF though with one or perhaps two PQ/PQS lenses and later upgrade to a Hy6 body.  You would still be able to use your lenses with focus confirmation.

The Hasselblad V and Mamiya RZ67 are excellent film platforms but at this point in time I personally would not consider them as a base for a future move to digital.

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synn

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Re: MF system selection - advise needed
« Reply #28 on: November 09, 2013, 09:21:22 am »

Hi,

I bought a mint condition Bronica ETRSi, metering prism, A non metering prism, a couple of focusing screens, 120 film back, Motor winder, 40mm f/4 and 150mm f/4 for around USD 1k.

Absolute joy to use and rather than saying it's a poor man's Hasselblad, I'd say Hasselblad is a rich man's Bronica. :D

If you're not planning to sell it off any time soon, I highly recommend it.

It is technically possible to use digital backs on it (Leaf still makes backs for Bronica, I think) and you can mount Hasselblad V backs on it via a very expensive adapter from Silvestri, but I'd buy it for the film experience alone.
« Last Edit: November 09, 2013, 09:26:17 am by synn »
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EricWHiss

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Re: MF system selection - advise needed
« Reply #29 on: November 10, 2013, 03:33:35 am »

Finding a MF camera and couple lenses for under $2k that you can add prisms and maybe a digital back to later means to me a used Hasselblad V kit, or used Mamiya RZ or 645AF.  You could probably get an RZproii and 3 lenses and still have money left over.  It's really a great value actually, and lots of digital backs were made to fit that camera or can be adapted to fit that camera.     You could get into a used 6008AF or integral2 and one lens kit certainly, but pushing the budget. Oddly 6008I2 and 6008AF's are selling new now for close to what the used fetch on ebay, and the used prisms are cheap, but the lenses still command high prices - and way over your budget.   As pointed out, there are not as many digital back options for the Rollei 6000 series. For info sake,  the best digital set up for the 6008af was the phase p20, and I've seen a number of them sell around $5k for camera kit and back, but you still need lenses. If you can find a CF-22 or CF-528, those are also pretty nice since you don't have the image bank, and not as expensive as the CF-39's.

I like the RZ and don't really mind the weight, but never understood the Contax 645 for its relatively small viewfinder - though I understand that people really like them. The 645af? Never liked it.  The mamiya 7ii has great lenses and is a super film camera.  It's too bad there wasn't a digital option for this camera. I've seen a few self made ones though. It's fun to see what people craft for themselves.  Actually, I'm surprised to not see more adapted phase backs onto the 6008's.  There was a poster here years back, Andre Napier, that made himself a p25+ and Rollei 6008AF combo.  Maybe as the prices come down on the older used digital backs we'll see more creative stuff being done?    I use my AFi-ii on my Linhof Technika and its really fun, but a bit too heavy. 
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eronald

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Re: MF system selection - advise needed
« Reply #30 on: November 10, 2013, 09:45:02 am »

i might have not made myself totally clear. my bad.

USD 2000 is for a FILM camera (and a lens or two). a starting point to build up from.
digital option is a subject to additional financing in the future.

Mark,

For some reason, many old and useful film cameras do not necessarily make good electronic cameras.
Hasselblad H, Mamiya, and maybe Contax, Hasselblad V to some degree  are those which can really do both.
A decent dealer will tell you what to expect.

Edmund
« Last Edit: November 10, 2013, 10:27:42 am by eronald »
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Joe Towner

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Mark Griboff

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Re: MF system selection - advise needed
« Reply #32 on: November 13, 2013, 10:00:02 am »

As to the OP, I would look for the form factor/feel that works best for you, and move on from there. If you don't need some of the features and speed digital provides, then shooting a camera like an old TLR can be very rewarding. So, it could be worth it to not worry about the digital path until you are going digital, and just get the camera you love to shoot most.

i really like the hassy 500 / mamiya645pro size/feel. and as far as my monitoring of ebay goes, one can buy a desent digital back for the 1st one for around 1500 these days (16 mpix).
no digital options for mamiya thou, sadly
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Re: MF system selection - advise needed
« Reply #34 on: November 13, 2013, 10:04:23 am »

tnaks for your input, jsch. but 4x5 does seem a little carried away for now. i'd stick with smth that would fit in my backpack and wouldn't always require a tripod, assiatant of both  :)
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Mark Griboff

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Re: MF system selection - advise needed
« Reply #35 on: November 13, 2013, 10:08:25 am »

Mark,

What are you shooting with now?  What are you shooting?  How involved are you looking to get into developing your own film, or are you planning to send it out?  

For what it's worth, I'd say get a 35mm film camera where you can leverage your existing lenses (if you have any) and spend the balance on B&W film and processing costs - for more than a few months of shooting.  The costs of getting into a medium format camera where you can put a digital back on later can quickly overwhelm folks.  Yes, you can get a Hassey V, but are you going to be killing yourself due to lack of film or processing?  Are you going to be matching this gift out of your own pocket?

i shoot mainly D800 now. people, nudes, commercial stuff. studio/outdoors - 70/30
no way i'm going to go into chemicals. sending out is fine by me. only option is maybe getting a pro scanner later on.
i don't fancy 35mm since the 'sensor' size will stay the same. i shot with a friend's F100 for a while and want' impressed.
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Mark Griboff

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Re: MF system selection - advise needed
« Reply #36 on: November 13, 2013, 10:21:03 am »

once again, thanx for all the ideas, everyone!

m8 could look like an interesting choice, but lens prices are sky high
hassy h1 is now on my ebay monitoring list
bronica? interesting option, but somehow doesn't 'click' me
rollei 6008af is definetly out of the price range

i've ordered mamiya 645 pro from japan, since it's dirt cheap compared to everything else - just to play around while i hunt for smth else.
in the end i feel like i'll end up with 645afd2 or h1 when i'll manage to pursuade myself to put up with their bulkyness.


Doug,
> In my very openly biased opinion there are several backs that won't cost much more than a Proback which will offer significantly greater future-proofing.
can you name a few?
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Doug Peterson

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Re: MF system selection - advise needed
« Reply #37 on: November 13, 2013, 11:31:37 am »

In my very openly biased opinion there are several backs that won't cost much more than a Proback which will offer significantly greater future-proofing.
can you name a few?

We just sold a refurbished, warrantied, [P20, DF+ body, and 80LS lens] kit for $4490 including C1 training. I'm not suggesting that kit for you since it's not compatible with film, but it's an example of the good quality you can find at the low-end of pricing when working with a good dealer, without any of the hassle/risk of buying no-warranty gear privately. I don't know what we would have sold the P20 for by itself (feel free to email me, dep@digitaltransitions.com, if you want me to find out). But I'd imagine not much different than you'd find a good condition ProBack for.

At the very low end of pricing the P20, P21, P25, Aptus 22 are all very solid backs from manufacturers that are still in the business. Full software support (under modern OS's), broadly available accessories, manufacturer repair/service still available, and can even be found with warranty (repair costs on low-end backs can be very price prohibitive without a warranty). The P-series in particular was extremely durable in construction and is likely to last you many many years into the future.
« Last Edit: November 13, 2013, 11:36:33 am by Doug Peterson »
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KevinA

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Re: MF system selection - advise needed
« Reply #38 on: November 14, 2013, 10:38:57 am »

The camera I call and use as a MF film classic, is the Rolleiflex. I know it does not tick most of the OP boxes, but it does tick boxes that other cameras do not.
A simple camera well made with a fixed lens is much better than the sum of it's paper spec parts in use.
Easily within budget too, I would recon a better investment than the Hassy long term. 3.5F my choice.
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Phil Indeblanc

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Re: MF system selection - advise needed
« Reply #39 on: November 14, 2013, 06:46:51 pm »

It sounds like you are either looking for some portability, but for price leaning for the Hass.
If going for the Hass, consider the RZ, as I like both very much, for versatility and price purposes, I can only see the RZ Pro2 meet this. The lens setup for DB's are still top notch at bargain prices below $500. The body is solid and service is available. You have a bllows option a tilt shift option, a macro, viewing glass options(first thing I did and amazing brightness). You have direct(ProIID) or indirect(adapter plate) option (about $400-600 for plate) MF Db options, you have grips 35mm Fisheye lens, telephoto lenses.......All these are very reasonable prices. Mirror is as clunky as a draw bridge, and the weight will never be like the Leica, But, it is one super setup.
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