MF system selection - advise needed

[Mark Griboff]

dearest all,

my grandmother gave me some money (around 2000USD to be precice) with a condition to by myself something 'for ages'.
since i'm not into expensive watches of other trinkets, i immedeately turned to classic MF cameras.
being a digital protographer, i was overwhelmed with amount of choise and in the same time lack of information on this matter.

so right now i ask for your advise:
i need a film camera system that will
a. fall into said price range (less is better obviously)
b. is more of less compact (hassy compact vs. rz67 bulk)
c. will be reliable enough to be (gently) used for decades
d. will be capable of expanding with additional options (lens, prisms, etc) more or less available on ebay without months of searching
e. will be capable of accepting (used) digital back after some time

my current preference after days of searching is Mamiya 645 pro tl, but i'm flexible.
and as to digital back - i LOVED the colors of Kodak DCS Pro Back 645

oh, and as to my shoots - that's 70/30 of studio people portraits to outside architecture, nature, travel

thank you very much

[amsp]

The Pro TL does not take digital backs. Your options are...

1. Hasselblad V-series
2. Hasselblad H-series
3. Mamiya 645 AFD (or newer)
4. Contax 645

If you want something that will last for decades my suggestion would be a Hassy V-series, as it's all mechanical.

[Mark Griboff]

The Pro TL does not take digital backs. Your options are...

1. Hasselblad V-series
2. Hasselblad H-series
3. Mamiya 645 AFD (or newer)
4. Contax 645

If you want something that will last for decades my suggestion would be a Hassy V-series, as it's all mechanical.

amsp, thanks for your reply!

1. which one of 15+ models would be preferable?
2. huge and way beyond price range (3500USD+ currently on ebay)
3. awesome, but bulky due to the handle
4. same as hassy H

[jerome_m]

I would say the Hasselblad V series is the obvious choice, because your grandmother will probably even dig it. After all, it is the camera that went on the moon and was in the movies of her youth.

[amsp]

amsp, thanks for your reply!

1. which one of 15+ models would be preferable?
2. huge and way beyond price range (3500USD+ currently on ebay)
3. awesome, but bulky due to the handle
4. same as hassy H

I'd say get a 501CM or 503CW, they are the latest versions and the only difference is the 503 can be used with a motor winder if you want.

[TMARK]

The Mamiya AFd series is pretty small.  Its less awkward than a Hass V with a meter prism.

For Hass V, AMSP speaks the truth:  501cm, 503CW, but you could save some cash and get a 503CX. Its a 503CW but not winder compatible.  The very good thing about the Hass V is that it is very repairable.  No electronics.

amsp, thanks for your reply!

1. which one of 15+ models would be preferable?
2. huge and way beyond price range (3500USD+ currently on ebay)
3. awesome, but bulky due to the handle
4. same as hassy H

[bcooter]

$2,000 isn't much in digital, barely gets there in film for something medium format.

A contax body in LN condition is $1,700, plus you need a viewfinder, film backs  and lenses, which will push the price way beyond your original 2 grand.

If I had 2 grand and wanted something for life I'd buy an M-8 and shop around or some 24mm lens.  That will still push you to about $2,500, but if you don't get caught up in the "need" more syndrome you'll have a very good but quirky little camera that should last a long, long time and it shoots a dng file which will process in anything and it's ccd which has a different look.

My m8 is strange, but it's very tough and I'd never sell it.

IMO

BC

[Mike Sellers]

Hi Mark,
I have read this thread -http://photo.net/medium-format-photography-forum/00Lvv8- that says you can use a Kodak DCS Pro back on a Mamiya 645af body with a factory mod.
I have my Mamiya 645af outfit on ebay now-eBay item 111206520496- which comes with the 80mm af and 105-210 af zoom starting at $600.00.
Mike

[Christoph C. Feldhaim]

You have many options.

To even increase your possibilities of choice I'd like to mention the Mamiya 7 II (which I use myself).
Example (not a recommendation) on Ebay:
http://www.ebay.com/itm/Mamiya-7II-Rangefinder-Camera-N-80mm-f-4-L-Lens-Kit-EXC-/321127597322?pt=Film_Cameras&hash=item4ac4b2450a
for US $ 2050.-

- Lightweight MF Rangefinder,  6x7 cm format
- Stellar glass - it can smoke Leica 35 mm
- Fun to use and ergonomically slick
- Film only - there is no digital option except hybrid/scanning.

Cheers
~Chris

[TMARK]

The Mam. 7 is an aquired taste.  I never recomend it to people because many people don't like it.

I think its the best camera system ever made if you don't need close focus and TTL.  The 80mm close focus attachment and its wire viewfinder are goofy but effective.  The lenses are second to none.  But it is a rangefinder, and this turns people off.   

You have many options.

To even increase your possibilities of choice I'd like to mention the Mamiya 7 II (which I use myself).
Example (not a recommendation) on Ebay:
http://www.ebay.com/itm/Mamiya-7II-Rangefinder-Camera-N-80mm-f-4-L-Lens-Kit-EXC-/321127597322?pt=Film_Cameras&hash=item4ac4b2450a
for US $ 2050.-

- Lightweight MF Rangefinder,  6x7 cm format
- Stellar glass - it can smoke Leica 35 mm
- Fun to use and ergonomically slick
- Film only - there is no digital option except hybrid/scanning.

Cheers
~Chris

[avelpavel]

One vote for the Contax 645!

I have used Hassy V, RZ67 and Contax 645 which in my opinion has something special when you consider zeiss lenses, rendering and bokeh. The AF is slow but precise, it drains a lot of batteries but in the end I'm really happy to use one and happy when I see the result. Remember the 5 blade diaphragm of the Hassy 500 which renders highlights as pentagons, really disturbing. The Contax has 8 blades and gives a very good out of focus feeling. Then you have the 35mm and the 120 Makro, the last one would be a reason to buy the camera only for use this lens. I'm using it with a Phase One back and it works flawless, never stops, never communicating issues. Last thing, the lenses are cheap compared to Hasselblad H, with the price of 1 H lens you can buy 3 Contax.

Good luck

Rob

www.pastrovicchio.com

[ErikKaffehr]

Hi,

I have a V series Hasselblad (555ELD). It is a nice classical camera with interface for digital and fits well within your budget. Hasselblad V-series lenses are dirt cheap and quite OK. Well possible that modern lenses are better, but you can buy a V-series Hasselblad and two lenses within your budget, so I would regard it as an interesting option.

Best regards
Erik

$2,000 isn't much in digital, barely gets there in film for something medium format.

A contax body in LN condition is $1,700, plus you need a viewfinder, film backs  and lenses, which will push the price way beyond your original 2 grand.

If I had 2 grand and wanted something for life I'd buy an M-8 and shop around or some 24mm lens.  That will still push you to about $2,500, but if you don't get caught up in the "need" more syndrome you'll have a very good but quirky little camera that should last a long, long time and it shoots a dng file which will process in anything and it's ccd which has a different look.

My m8 is strange, but it's very tough and I'd never sell it.

IMO

BC

[Doug Peterson]

As a guy very biased normally towards Phase One and Mamiya my suggestion at these price points (which as many alluded narrow the options considerably, but still provide many great timeless options):
- Mamiya RZ
- Leica M film camera or Leica M8
- Hasselblad 500 series (really not that important which one)

All are built like tanks, have timeless qualities to their construction/ergonomics/look and are in wide enough abundance to ensure you can find one that balances your tolerance for imperfect-condition with your available budget.

Digital for the RZ and 500 is pretty straight forward: multiple digital backs made will fit on the 500 directly or on the RZ via adapter. Digital for a Leica M film camera is existent but you'd be building (over time) a lens collection that would work great on an M8 or M9 or future M body (or even non Leica bodies like my beloved X-Pro 1). Digital M8 is already digital and as suggested above if you just don't pay attention to what else "more" there is out there you will never be disappointed by the quality of image it produces within the range of light it can shoot in.

To me the RZ provides the best value in so far as you get a big fat 6x7 negative/positive and very very good lenses for insultingly cheap (Mamiya doesn't have "collectors" brand name appeal, and were made in great quantities, and are manual focus only - an economic recipe for very low cost on the used market that doesn't even remotely reflect the quality/character of the lenses).

[Doug Peterson]

Well possible that modern lenses are better, but you can buy a V-series Hasselblad and two lenses within your budget, so I would regard it as an interesting option.

"Better" of course encompasses many factors two photographers may not agree on.

Empirically there is no question that the best modern lenses are sharper than the Hassy 500 series lenses. However, there is a character to some lenses like the Hassy Zeiss, the Mamiya 7, Leica M, and Schneider LS lenses that go beyond "just being sharp".

So if you love the look of a 500 series lens (no issue finding sample images on flickr and the like for these) then you shouldn't worry too much about "better" modern lenses; especially given your available budget.

Find something you love using, and will do the job well enough. That's a better recipe for happiness in life than finding something that does the job very well but you only sorta like using. This of course, assuming you can't find something within your budget that can do the job very well and you love using.

[Doug Peterson]

Kodak DCS Pro Back 645

In my very openly biased opinion there are several backs that won't cost much more than a Proback which will offer significantly greater future-proofing.

[Mark Griboff]

everybody, thanks for the input!
that's a lot of info to process, but i have a big question for the time being - why isn't anyone mentioning Rollei? 6008 looks like a good start, is it not?

[Doug Peterson]

Rollei 6008 digital back options are slim

Rollei Hy6 is awesome but out of your budget range

[ErikKaffehr]

Hi,

Yes, why not? Those cameras were great and perhaps they still are. We are fortunate to have EricWHiss on these forums, a very decent poster who may know all the answers.

Best regards
Erik

everybody, thanks for the input!
that's a lot of info to process, but i have a big question for the time being - why isn't anyone mentioning Rollei? 6008 looks like a good start, is it not?

[ErikKaffehr]

Hi Doug,

I would say that MFDigital  is out of that budget range, at least for now.

Best regards
Erik

Rollei 6008 digital back options are slim

Rollei Hy6 is awesome but out of your budget range

[Mark Griboff]

i might have not made myself totally clear. my bad.

USD 2000 is for a FILM camera (and a lens or two). a starting point to build up from.
digital option is a subject to additional financing in the future.