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Author Topic: My attempt at pastels  (Read 11019 times)

David Eckels

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Re: Another attempt at pastels
« Reply #20 on: November 05, 2013, 11:08:55 am »

From that same evening in Los Olivos. Does the framing with the tree branch work?

degrub

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Re: My attempt at pastels
« Reply #21 on: November 05, 2013, 11:54:20 am »

What was your intended composition focus - the color or the branch pattern ? Is it intended to be abstract or naturalistic ?

Frank
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David Eckels

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Re: My attempt at pastels
« Reply #22 on: November 05, 2013, 12:48:13 pm »

What was your intended composition focus - the color or the branch pattern ? Is it intended to be abstract or naturalistic ?

Frank
The color gradient and I thought the strong branch pattern would provide a nice frame. On my work monitor, the shadows are terribly blocked. As for abstract or naturalistic, I guess I don't understand. To me, abstract would imply the absence of recognizable structure(s). If naturalistic, then details in the branch should be brought out with the color gradient as background support. But in terms of "what caught my eye" definitely the color first and then the branch. Hope this addresses your question, Frank.

Slobodan Blagojevic

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Re: My attempt at pastels
« Reply #23 on: November 05, 2013, 01:00:30 pm »

From that same evening in Los Olivos. Does the framing with the tree branch work?

Yes, it works nicely that way. This is a good example when blocked shadows, to the point of total black, are perfectly acceptable, as you are creating a silhouette. The color is obviously the main point.

Nitpick: there is a strong Clarity effect in the branch (white areas around twigs and leaves); rather unnecessary, I think. Also, along the horizon, though there I am not sure if it isn't fog.
« Last Edit: November 05, 2013, 01:02:57 pm by Slobodan Blagojevic »
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Slobodan Blagojevic

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Re: My attempt at pastels
« Reply #24 on: November 05, 2013, 01:42:24 pm »

...First time somebody hasn't kicked me for over processing ;) but then I haven't heard from Slobodan yet! ;D

Hehe.

While you were "struggling" with pastels, I was struggling with the definition of "pastel." My first recourse is a dictionary, and it says something like "soft and delicate." Hmmm, sort of a Disney princess then? Now, if we look at your version of "pastel," and want to stay with Hollywood metaphors, it looks to me more like "Dark Knight Meets Disney Princess."  ;D

If I remember correctly my art classes, pastels are achieved by adding white color to pinks, oranges, reds, blues, etc. No wonder Wikipedia uses the following to describe them: "milky", "washed out", "desaturated", "lacking strong chromatic content". Someone in your art class must have pulled a prank on you and replaced your white tube with a black one ;)

But, semantics (and joking) aside, you are free to see the world anyway you want. If you see it that dark and moody, so be it. As I argued before, not every shadow needs (or deserves) to be open. I can certainly live with (and enjoy) your OP palette if that reflects your mood and intention. I might equally like it a bit brighter as well; it would just deliver a slightly different message. On the other hand, the dark palette could be totally natural as well, ie, early mornings, well before sunrise, can be really, really dark and opaque.

As for the square, it would be my favorite as well. Not only because I have a sweet (read: Hasselblad) spot for square, but because it gets rid of a single annoying nitpick I have for the OP version: there is a thin, white, distracting line on the right (a dirt road?). The square composition, as others already mentioned, is also using fewer and simpler elements to deliver the same message. The inclusion of more gentle shadings in the upper sky helps as well (with my apologies to your wife).

The attraction (some) people have to the square is more than just a personal preference. Square format lends itself to certain compositions better than other formats. It projects balance, harmony, symmetry, etc. For instance, it is the only format where placing a horizon in the middle works. It allows the eye to explore the image in a circular motion, thus staying longer within the frame. The more elongated format is, the more eye has to wander left to right, risking to leave the image when too far to the right. Panoramas are notoriously difficult to compose.

There you have it, my $0.02.

David Eckels

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Re: My attempt at pastels
« Reply #25 on: November 05, 2013, 02:29:26 pm »

Great (and useful) comments, Slobodan, thanks. No art class, so no pranks ;) And don't say, "I could tell!" Understand the square comments too. Haven't really thought a lot about how the frame (or aspect ratio) is part of the composition. Hmmmm... I've been reading that book on composition you recommended, the one with all the examples from the old masters, it is helping with analyzing an image and his style is great for my insomnia! As for pastels, I've seen yours and many others here from before sunrise and after sunset that have successfully avoided any sense of "darkness" or "foreboding" (not my intention), so I will have to keep experimenting.

By the way, this IS my art class!

Christoph C. Feldhaim

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Re: My attempt at pastels
« Reply #26 on: November 05, 2013, 02:33:42 pm »

Pastel to me means usually slightly subdued and whiteish color.
Concerning this I'd lighten up parts of the images, but thats all highly subjective of course.

The important question is what do YOU mean with "pastel" when you say "My attempt at pastels" ?
When we know that and have an idea about the look you intend we might help better.

Cheers
~Chris

David Eckels

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Re: My attempt at pastels
« Reply #27 on: November 05, 2013, 03:57:47 pm »

Great point, Christoph. I would pick Slobodan's definition #1: soft and delicate. The first image would fit better with this, I think, than the second, partly because of the silhouette and also the saturation. And believe me, you've been a terrific help already. Slobodan's point about what I intend as mood is a good one and I think I am transitioning to a certain extent from having a very heavy hand in post and/or technically towards images with greater subtlety to my eye. Certainly not that I've arrived in any sense, but the conversations have shifted a bit to address tone and mood in an image and I think I am starting to recognize when I have gone over the top, which comes along with developing a vocabulary that other artists can understand. When I first started here, I very often did not know what some of the folks were talking about. So, again, this has been and continues to be extremely helpful to me. Even your question pushes me to realize that it doesn't help to just post an image and ask for comments; seeking a critique in the context of what I am trying to achieve, THAT's where it's helpful! Thanks.

Christoph C. Feldhaim

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Re: My attempt at pastels
« Reply #28 on: November 05, 2013, 04:05:14 pm »

Welcome !

And ... don't get to anxious to play over the top in post.

E.G. I often try out crazy things like this:
http://www.luminous-landscape.com/forum/index.php?topic=83749.0

Fear is the mind killer and also the killer of creativity !

Cheers
~Chris

louoates

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Re: My attempt at pastels
« Reply #29 on: November 05, 2013, 05:03:42 pm »

Square is nice. All you need to do is print and price.
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Slobodan Blagojevic

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Re: My attempt at pastels
« Reply #30 on: November 06, 2013, 07:26:07 pm »

Your Los Olivos photo, especially using branches to frame, reminded me of one of my own, from Chania, Crete. Pardon the last century  technology (scanned from a 6x6 transparency, printed on then-Epson printer, scanned from a print):

RSL

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Re: My attempt at pastels
« Reply #31 on: November 06, 2013, 09:32:27 pm »

I've been too busy writing software to spend much time here, so I sort of skipped over this one, David.

I like it very much. Yes, I have to admit that the square format is good, but so is your original -- not the original crop, but the original aspect ratio. I'm with Chris on that one: trust your gut. Photography hasn't anything to do with thought. It has to do with reacting. Almost always, if you react and don't stop to think, what comes out is the best possible result.
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David Eckels

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Re: My attempt at pastels
« Reply #32 on: November 07, 2013, 08:33:45 am »

Thanks for the admonition Russ. Yes, we've missed you around here. Reacting to the shot certainly happens at capture, but then how do you carry it through in your workflow? A topic for another discussion?
Slobodan, your Chania shot--some uncanny overlap in tones--perhaps you are beginning to see the world in from a dark and moody point of view ;) ;) or rather ;D ;D I just couldn't help it. Seriously, seeing your shot encourages me to keep experimenting with such "low light" situations.

RSL

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Re: My attempt at pastels
« Reply #33 on: November 07, 2013, 11:27:35 am »

. . .how do you carry it through in your workflow?

In this particular case I don't think there's any standard answer to that. With most shots, assuming you got the exposure spot-on, workflow will include some minimal sharpening and making sure brightness spans the available range. At that point it should end. I see a lot of photographs screwed up because the camera wielder essentially was a Photoshop hacker rather than a photographer. In fact, I have a friend like that. First class guy, but his thing is making people in his photographs smile, even though they weren't, adding ears that weren't there, etc. He does the same thing with landscapes.

In this case, David, I think that whatever you did in post was the right thing. I might have done it differently, but that's because this kind of photograph is an expression of an inner vision rather than a fact.

Those who almost immediately will opine that all photographs are expressions of an inner vision (Slobodan comes to mind) are right -- but it's beside the point, because you know what I'm talking about.
« Last Edit: November 07, 2013, 12:42:22 pm by RSL »
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David Eckels

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Re: My attempt at pastels
« Reply #34 on: November 07, 2013, 02:00:21 pm »

making sure brightness spans the available range.
So these shots did not obviously span the available range. They do start out at just where the blacks start to block up, but pushing the whites and highlights in LR (or upping exposure) seems to go way too far. To my eye on a calibrated monitor; also that which I am printing is very close to what I am seeing. I know the "routine" is to spread the exposure to either side of the histogram without clipping too much and I know that's not what you're talking about. I am beginning to come to the conclusion, maybe to the point of conviction, that aside from obvious technical issues or composition, and even these are or can be subjective, the absolute standard is, "What do I like?" That doesn't make me a good photographer, though. Hmmmmm... Maybe this has devolved into so much navel gazing, but I have indeed learned a tremendous amount from these discussions, although I am finding I care less about other opinions as to whether it is good or bad, or it is liked or not, and more about specific issues that are concerning to me. I think this is a restatement of what you just said and so I guess I do know what you are talking about ;) Thanks!

RSL

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Re: My attempt at pastels
« Reply #35 on: November 07, 2013, 02:17:24 pm »

David, I didn't mean to say or imply that extending brightnesses to the available range always is necessary. In this case it clearly is not. I have plenty of fog pictures where that's not the thing to do -- like this one. But in the vast majority of "straight" shots, that's a standard part of post-processing.

And yes! "What do I like?" is the only reasonable standard, unless you're a pro, which is why I'm not a pro.
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David Eckels

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Re: My attempt at pastels
« Reply #36 on: November 07, 2013, 02:22:10 pm »

Lovely image! But...those highlights in the birds back have to be very close to pure white...so what do you do with an image with nothing close to pure white? I know! Whatever looks good to my eye is what I think you'd say.
Startin' to get it.
Scary.

RSL

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Re: My attempt at pastels
« Reply #37 on: November 07, 2013, 02:32:35 pm »

Exactly! And I think you did a great job with this post.
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Bill Marquis

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Re: My attempt at pastels
« Reply #38 on: November 07, 2013, 05:41:28 pm »

I really like the first image in the op.The square crop seems to cramped to me  :o
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David Eckels

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Re: My attempt at pastels
« Reply #39 on: November 07, 2013, 11:20:41 pm »

I really like the first image in the op.The square crop seems to cramped to me  :o
You and my wife! ;) thanks and welcome.
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