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Author Topic: Identifiable people in my new photo book--permissions needed?  (Read 16155 times)

louoates

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Identifiable people in my new photo book--permissions needed?
« on: October 24, 2013, 01:32:33 pm »

I plan to publish a 60 page picture book with all my own photographs taken in a small Arizona town. It will be sold by local gift shops. The book will be about 50% local landscape pictures, and the rest of identifiable people doing various things in public places. Many of the people pictures are posed, some are attending local events, etc.
It would be impossible to get written approval for book use from all these people. The "fair use" copyright laws in the US don't seem to address this sort of thing specifically so I'm hoping someone here has a more concrete understanding of this situation and can give me some advice.
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RSL

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Re: Identifiable people in my new photo book--permissions needed?
« Reply #1 on: October 24, 2013, 02:28:04 pm »

Lou, you need to talk to an attorney who has some knowledge of that branch of the law. A whole lot depends on what the book's going to be used for. Our local tourist bureau just latched on to one of my pictures looking up toward Pikes Peak for the cover of a new brochure, but they also wanted to use a picture of a little kid looking up at one of our local fountains for an inside shot. The PP shot was fine, but I couldn't let them use the kid, because the purpose was promotion rather than art.
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Slobodan Blagojevic

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Re: Identifiable people in my new photo book--permissions needed?
« Reply #2 on: October 24, 2013, 03:10:40 pm »

I am not a lawyer, but I believe that as long as it is viewed as art, you should be ok. You are allowed to display recognizable people in an art gallery (that includes selling the prints as well), so as long as your book's main purpose is artistic (showcasing your work), I believe you should be ok. In Russ' case, the kid's picture would be used for a promotional brochure, thus commerce, rather than art, and Russ was right in not letting them use it. Again, just my non-legal, layman opinion.

RSL

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Re: Identifiable people in my new photo book--permissions needed?
« Reply #3 on: October 24, 2013, 04:14:53 pm »

I think you're right, Slobodan. I certainly have no problem showing the kid in art galleries. As long as you're doing it as art you're in pretty good shape, but my second son is an attorney who specializes in intellectual property and I know there are subtleties that need to be considered. I'd be willing to bet Lou's in good shape with his book, but I'd still recommend a quick sit-down with a guy who knows the law, and a run through the book to make sure he's not doing something like unintentionally misrepresenting a person's part in an action -- especially since he's dealing with locals who can come into the store and see themselves.
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louoates

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Re: Identifiable people in my new photo book--permissions needed?
« Reply #4 on: October 24, 2013, 06:57:28 pm »

Thank you all for your comments. The people in the book are all doing very benign actions, or obviously posing for the camera. It is a book showcasing my landscape artistry in that location as well as my portrait-taking skills in everyday situations. In fact I think that most of sales of this book will be to those that see a picture of themselves or friends in the book. Since this will be a print-on-demand book I'm not worried about high upfront costs (under $10 ea.) and if there was a hassle with anyone I could easily delete that person from subsequent copies. I'm fairly well known in that town and my landscape work is featured in a gallery there that has shown interest in selling such a book.
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RSL

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Re: Identifiable people in my new photo book--permissions needed?
« Reply #5 on: October 24, 2013, 07:25:15 pm »

Sounds as if you're safe, Lou.
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Floyd Davidson

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Re: Identifiable people in my new photo book--permissions needed?
« Reply #6 on: October 24, 2013, 07:27:00 pm »

The "fair use" copyright laws in the US don't seem to address this sort of thing [...]

This is not a copyright issue in any sense.  You took the pictures, you own the copyright.  And you can therefore publish the pictures without any possiblity of a copyright violation.

The legal problem is privacy, not copyright.  Any use which promotes a business interest requires a release.  But while copyright law is Federal, privacy law is State and might differ from one place to another in some not so obvious way.  Hence the only sane thing to do is run it all past an attorney who specializes in this type of work.

Generally though you can figure that images inside the book, regardless of what the person is doing or whether they are recognizable or not, do not need a release.  An image on the cover is promoting sale of the book, and would probably require a release.
« Last Edit: October 24, 2013, 07:31:14 pm by Floyd Davidson »
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RSL

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Re: Identifiable people in my new photo book--permissions needed?
« Reply #7 on: October 24, 2013, 09:04:39 pm »

Where did you get your law degree, Floyd, and which bar do you belong to?
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Floyd Davidson

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Re: Identifiable people in my new photo book--permissions needed?
« Reply #8 on: October 24, 2013, 09:14:33 pm »

Sounds as if you're safe, Lou.

Where did you get your law degree, Russ, and which bar do you belong to?
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mezzoduomo

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Re: Identifiable people in my new photo book--permissions needed?
« Reply #9 on: October 24, 2013, 09:32:20 pm »

Where did you get your law degree, Russ, and which bar do you belong to?

Dude, You've been a member here for a month, and you've spent 3 days and 11 hours logged on. Sounds like about 10% of the total elapsed time, and perhaps 15% of your waking hours, although you'll undoubtedly dispute something about this statement.

Why do you have such a hard on for this innocent forum, and why are you such an insufferable know-it-all?

Please be advised that I won't respond if you respond, and I won't defend myself, or even explain or clarify anything. I'm strictly venting my spleen.
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louoates

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Re: Identifiable people in my new photo book--permissions needed?
« Reply #10 on: October 24, 2013, 11:10:43 pm »

Thanks Floyd and others. I think I'll go ahead with the book.
I just read of a lawsuit thrown out by a NY judge having to do with presumed privacy. The sued photographer was shooting from his high rise apartment into the apartments of nearby residents. He had a show featuring those pictures that included recognizable people, one of whom brought the suit citing the state's privacy issue. Here's the link: http://www.pdnonline.com/news/Judge-Dismisses-Priv-8708.shtml A very logical decision.
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RSL

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Re: Identifiable people in my new photo book--permissions needed?
« Reply #11 on: October 25, 2013, 07:28:39 am »

Right, Lou. There was an extensive thread about that suit not long ago right here on LuLa. One thing you have to take into account, though, is that that happened in New York City, where weird is the rule of the day.
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RSL

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Re: Identifiable people in my new photo book--permissions needed?
« Reply #12 on: October 25, 2013, 10:43:10 am »

Where did you get your law degree, Russ, and which bar do you belong to?

The reason I don't give legal advice, Floyd, is because I don't have a law degree. Since you're handing out legal advice, for your own sake I hope you have a law degree and have passed the bar.
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Russ Lewis  www.russ-lewis.com.

Floyd Davidson

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Re: Identifiable people in my new photo book--permissions needed?
« Reply #13 on: October 25, 2013, 11:34:38 am »

The reason I don't give legal advice, Floyd, is because I don't have a law degree. Since you're handing out legal advice, for your own sake I hope you have a law degree and have passed the bar.

I have not handed out any legal advice.

If you don't know what that is, talk to virtually any attorney.
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RSL

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Re: Identifiable people in my new photo book--permissions needed?
« Reply #14 on: October 25, 2013, 11:38:37 am »

I have not handed out any legal advice.

"Generally though you can figure that images inside the book, regardless of what the person is doing or whether they are recognizable or not, do not need a release.  An image on the cover is promoting sale of the book, and would probably require a release." Floyd Davidson

Not only is this legal advice, it's not even correct.
« Last Edit: October 25, 2013, 11:40:22 am by RSL »
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Russ Lewis  www.russ-lewis.com.

Floyd Davidson

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Re: Identifiable people in my new photo book--permissions needed?
« Reply #15 on: October 25, 2013, 12:16:38 pm »

"Generally though you can figure that images inside the book, regardless of what the person is doing or whether they are recognizable or not, do not need a release.  An image on the cover is promoting sale of the book, and would probably require a release." Floyd Davidson

Not only is this legal advice, it's not even correct.

As I suggested, you should talk to an attorney.  You'll find that is not legal advice.  It is rather clearly my opinion as to facts about law, which barely constitutes even legal information; and is precisely correct too.
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RSL

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Re: Identifiable people in my new photo book--permissions needed?
« Reply #16 on: October 25, 2013, 12:24:52 pm »

You probably ought to read the rest of the thread, Floyd.
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Russ Lewis  www.russ-lewis.com.

AFairley

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Re: Identifiable people in my new photo book--permissions needed?
« Reply #17 on: October 25, 2013, 12:25:20 pm »

Well, I am a lawyer, but I'm not giving any advice  ;D  Except to say that giving advice should be left to a lawyer who is familiar with the specific laws of the OP's state that govern the issue presented here.  BTW, the NY case was decided under NY law and is only applicable to NY.
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Floyd Davidson

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Re: Identifiable people in my new photo book--permissions needed?
« Reply #18 on: October 25, 2013, 12:54:29 pm »

You probably ought to read the rest of the thread, Floyd.

Russ, you need to stop being silly.  You snipped my sentence immediately following what you quoted:

"Hence the only sane thing to do is run it all past an attorney who specializes in this type of work."

Now read what AFairley, who admits he is an attorney, said about that.  There is a reason for what we both had to say, and you might have noted too that I had previously pointed out  the laws covering the OP's questions might vary from one state to another.  That is of course different than Copyright Law, which is Federal and will be the same in all of the states of the US.

Just to give you more fits, even though AFairley is an attorney he can write exactly the same type of opinions here that I do and he will not be giving legal advice either.  That type of information just does not constitute "legal advice".
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jjj

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Re: Identifiable people in my new photo book--permissions needed?
« Reply #19 on: October 25, 2013, 02:33:42 pm »

Dude, You've been a member here for a month, and you've spent 3 days and 11 hours logged on. Sounds like about 10% of the total elapsed time, and perhaps 15% of your waking hours, although you'll undoubtedly dispute something about this statement.

Why do you have such a hard on for this innocent forum, and why are you such an insufferable know-it-all?

Please be advised that I won't respond if you respond, and I won't defend myself, or even explain or clarify anything. I'm strictly venting my spleen.
You won't be the first.
Not only has upset people on DP Review but also in his own community but some people do seem to care about him.....


Shooty    
14/06/2000

Hi, my name is Shooty.  I am looking for a guy named Floyd L.
Davidson of  Ukpeagvik (Barrow, Alaska).  Floyd L. Davidson of
Ukpeagvik (Barrow, Alaska) used to post to this newsgroup, but
he's suddenly stopped, and I'm becoming worried for his safety.
As best I can tell, Floyd L. Davidson of  Ukpeagvik (Barrow, Alaska)
hasn't posted for nearly four whole hours.  So I'm sure you can
understand my concern.

If case you don't know who Floyd L. Davidson of  Ukpeagvik
(Barrow, Alaska) is, he's the poster who hates Anchorage with all
his heart, but loves Ukpeagvik (Barrow, Alaska) and its environs so
much that he never leaves his computer long enough to ever make
it to his front door.

Where's Floyd?

Shooty
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