seeking a canvas varnish that does NOT yellow.....

[msongs]

hello,

I have been using the house brand varnish from Lexjet and it yellows quite noticeably in a short time. I put paper corner protectors on my stretched prints and when several fell off I saw that the triangle of canvas under the protector was the original color and the rest of the canvas was noticeably yellow. There was a sharp line between formerly protected and exposed. This reduced the value of the prints substantially. I sell at indoor and outdoor sales, in bright sunlight but try to reduce exposure to direct sunlight.

What varnishes are recommended to yellow either not at all or the least? Needs to be water based and must be applied with a roller. I do not have facilities for spraying.

I want to use semi-gloss type coating or satin.

Thanks much!

[StuNY]

I use the Eco Print Shield coating with a roller on my canvas. They claim it is "non yellowing" and I have not specifically tested this but have canvas hanging for a couple years with occasional sunlight hitting them and do not see any yellowing.

http://www.ecoprintshield.com/

[Bullfrog]

To my knowledge there are three:
- Eco Print shield
- Timeless/Glamour II (Breathing Colour)
- Clear Shield

I tried Eco Print Shiled by roller using canon 6100 inks.  It was quite bluntly awful.  It was like rolling on sandpaper - no matter how lightly I rolled (you must apply no pressure) - it would get stuck and it left a mottled appearance on every print -even after 2 coats.   Application of the next coat does not "reactivate" the lower layer, so if you put one coat on fine, and screw up the next coat - you have destroyed the print.  3 coats makes it look like rubbermaid .

I will say their customer service in California was very patient and helpful with my questions - but after buying 2 jugs and blowing through gawd only knows how much paper with no measurable improvement or even some systematic learnings of what I did wrong (ie I could not discern a pattern, I could not replicate past errors nor could I predict the new ones)  - I gave up and learned to use a solvent based varnish instead.

On Eco Print shield - it apparently worked very well on Epson inks because the store referred to me someone who was a user of it and they said it worked without major issues (apparently as I recall he did state there was some bleed of colour on black which he used for borders -) but his comments were his prints were not materially black and otherwise it worked well (again my recollection - its been a few years).

Point: obviously that person didn't have any problems because he used it.

I could not find Clear Shield in Ontario but its worth investigating.

Timeless - well, many people here use it and swear by it -they will no doubt chip in.

http://www.marabu-northamerica.com/products/product-overview/liquid-coatings/water-based/detail-view/products/ClearShield%20Type%20C%20(US%20only)-680.html

My experience (for what its worth) is there is a definite learning curve, dark inks are really unforgiving, and the paper used will affect results - humidity is also a factor and if you live in a dry climate you must adjust accordingly.

[MHMG]

hello,

I have been using the house brand varnish from Lexjet and it yellows quite noticeably in a short time. I put paper corner protectors on my stretched prints and when several fell off I saw that the triangle of canvas under the protector was the original color and the rest of the canvas was noticeably yellow. There was a sharp line between formerly protected and exposed. This reduced the value of the prints substantially. I sell at indoor and outdoor sales, in bright sunlight but try to reduce exposure to direct sunlight.

Depending on your choice of canvas, the yellowing may not be the result of the varnish, rather, it might be OBA burnout. Lexjet Sunset matte canvas, for example, has high OBA content, and the loss of OBA fluorescence due to high intensity light exposure in your exhibition areas would manifest itself as yellowing compared to the protected corners which would remain the original cool bright-white of the canvas. Despite many manufacturers' claims, most coatings are simply not UV-blocking enough to shut down OBA fluorescence nor protect the OBAs from fading. Try looking at your yellowed canvas samples through a good UV-blocking glazing like OP3 acrylic or museum glass. Do the corners still look less yellow? If so, then you might have a varnish problem. If not, then your yellowing is due to OBA burnout. Or alternatively, try examining the canvas with a backlight you can pick up at most hardware stores like home Depot. The protected corners will glow much more than the main yellowed area of the print if OBAs in the canvas are the culprit.

Also, in my light fade tests of some popular water-based acrylic varnishes, these acrylic coatings tend to bleach clearer (actually losing a little yellowness) by a small amount when subjected to light fade testing. I haven't tested any that yellow, and certainly not as much as what is contributed to image yellowing by OBA burnout, but that said, some of these aqueous emulsion acrylic varnishes can also have an adverse impact on the pigmenet lightfastness properties in some situations. There's no free lunch. You get important and I'd daresay necessary improvements in scratch and abrasion resistance plus ability to gently clean the artwork if the surface gets dirty, but there can be some decline in overall inkjet pigment color fastness.

cheers,
Mark
http://www.aardenburg-imaging.com

[Mike Guilbault]

I've been rolling Timeless quite successfully for almost a year now.  No yellowing that I've detected so far and I have canvases hanging in my front gallery area with large windows.  It dries quickly, so you have to get the roller marks out asap, but with a little practice, I'm quite happy with it.

[Paul2660]

You should not see any yellowing with either Glamour II or Timeless, both sold by Breathing color.

[PeterAit]

I have had great results with the Breathing Color Timeless (on their Lyve canvas). It's true that none of my canvas prints are much more than 1 year old, so it's impossible to say they never yellow, but I have high regard for all their products (just as well, given their prices!).

[Garnick]

This is actually a reply to Bullfrog's post more so than the original post.  However I feel it will certainly add to the conversation.  Bullfrog seemed to insinuate that he is rolling Eco Print Shield onto a paper substrate, a procedure that I don't use.  I have however been using Eco Print Shield on Breathing Colour Chromata White for approximately 5 years, and except for one bad bottle(likely frozen during transit) I've had absolutely NO issues at all with the product.  I do use only Epson inks, so perhaps that has some relevance, as Bullfrog implied.  Since I use only Epson inks I have no other situation to compare, so that might be a moot point.  As far as applying NO pressure with the roller, I've also never found that to be an issue.  One thing I did learn very quickly was not to start applying the first coat with a completely dry roller.  Therefore, before the first application I always wet the roller thoroughly and then squeeze out as much water as possible and use a lint free paper towel to absorb the rest, leaving the roller with a slightly damp feeling.  As you might guess, this facilitates the roller picking up a good quantity of the coating and spreading it more evenly during the first coat.  Since I use only matte canvas this is a very important step IMO.  Of course you will never obtain a perfectly even coating during the first application, but that will definitely be taken care of with the second coat.  I apply three coats and have never noticed the "rubber maid" appearance that Bullfrog alludes to.  My first and second coats are Satin and the third is usually a 50/50 mix of Satin and Gloss for a very nice finish.  Occasionally I have a customer who likes the Satin only or perhaps a Gloss finish, so that's not a problem.  It's always the final coat that determines the amount of gloss. 

I'm sorry that Bullfrog has had some bad luck with the Eco Print Shield product, but that has certainly not been my experience on the canvas and ink combination I use.  I will say that at one point I did try some Hahnemühle canvas and was not happy with the coating, so I abandoned that combination and stayed with the aforementioned approach.  I hope this is of some help.

Gary           

[Bullfrog]

This is actually a reply to Bullfrog's post more so than the original post.  However I feel it will certainly add to the conversation.  Bullfrog seemed to insinuate that he is rolling Eco Print Shield onto a paper substrate, a procedure that I don't use.  I have however been using Eco Print Shield on Breathing Colour Chromata White for approximately 5 years, and except for one bad bottle(likely frozen during transit) I've had absolutely NO issues at all with the product.  I do use only Epson inks, so perhaps that has some relevance, as Bullfrog implied.  Since I use only Epson inks I have no other situation to compare, so that might be a moot point.  As far as applying NO pressure with the roller, I've also never found that to be an issue.  One thing I did learn very quickly was not to start applying the first coat with a completely dry roller.  Therefore, before the first application I always wet the roller thoroughly and then squeeze out as much water as possible and use a lint free paper towel to absorb the rest, leaving the roller with a slightly damp feeling.  As you might guess, this facilitates the roller picking up a good quantity of the coating and spreading it more evenly during the first coat.  Since I use only matte canvas this is a very important step IMO.  Of course you will never obtain a perfectly even coating during the first application, but that will definitely be taken care of with the second coat.  I apply three coats and have never noticed the "rubber maid" appearance that Bullfrog alludes to.  My first and second coats are Satin and the third is usually a 50/50 mix of Satin and Gloss for a very nice finish.  Occasionally I have a customer who likes the Satin only or perhaps a Gloss finish, so that's not a problem.  It's always the final coat that determines the amount of gloss.  

I'm sorry that Bullfrog has had some bad luck with the Eco Print Shield product, but that has certainly not been my experience on the canvas and ink combination I use.  I will say that at one point I did try some Hahnemühle canvas and was not happy with the coating, so I abandoned that combination and stayed with the aforementioned approach.  I hope this is of some help.

Gary            

Hi Gary
I didn't insinuate anything.  I reported my personal experience with the product - which was factual.  To clear up your other assumptions, no, I did not use paper, I used (and still use) mat canvas with canon inks.  My last statement and a reference to "paper' was a generic statement.  My point was the choice of CANVAS would /could affect the results and since I was using Canon canvas (paper) and canon inks and the other user I spoke with (who used it successfully) was using Epson canvas paper and Epson inks -  that MAY make a difference.

That is supposition on my part because I have no knowledge of one other user in Ontario that has/had a 6100 (lucia inks) and Canon mat canvas and uses it successfully nor could the manufacturer or the store provide me with one - factually, at that time, the product literature I was given indicated it was tested on Epson and while it may have changed, at the time I could find no reference information to state it was tested on Canon inks nor could the manufacturer provide it.  I qualify Ontario because I was also told by both the manufacturer and the other Epson user (who lived in Ontario as well) that our dry winters would affect the product viscosity and application - in other words, it favours humid conditions, not dry.  I was applying it in mid summer - the most humid (read optimal) time of the year and still with miserable results.

I do recall the manufacturer pointing me towards another canvas and it may be the one you use - and I was prepared to switch but at the time, they had no profiles for the canon printer.  It really was a lonely world back then with Canon
(sob)

Anyway, that whole roller technique, the application and a bunch more detail I've long since forgotten was explained to me by the very nice help people of Eco Print Shield who painstakingly tried to help.  As I mentioned its been a few years.  Suffice to say, it drove me nuts, the so called benefit of "water" soluble was a small and increasingly insignificant virtue (I guess my sink was happy for all the attention it got dumping lots of coating  and I still have a jug in the basement along with plenty of spongy white rollers and trays to remind me of my "journey" .  :-0

Don't be sorry I had bad luck - I'm actually grateful it didn't work out because it forced me to move to another product which I still use today - one which in my view is far superior, and one I"m very pleased with and in the 4 or more years of using it, I can factually state no yellowing, no fading.

As far as yellowing, and actual UV protection of the Eco Print shield -  I have no idea.   There was no research on Canon inks (that I was provided with or aware of),  there was nothing beyond the manufacturer's claim AT THE TIME.  That isn't to say it won't - I don't know.  The Wilhelm institute was reporting all kinds of data from their study on Epson - but it was silent on Canon.,  Again, since I may be taken to task for this - I clarify - AT THE TIME.  It was 3 or 4 years ago (memory) and I don't keep current on products I don't use.

To the OP:  As an aside, Glamour /Timeless was the alternative I was provided, but my appetite for the water soluble was tainted and I chose a different route.  If I was going to switch to water soluble today, I would favour Timeless/Glamour II - but I would only use it if I used their canvas (Lyve) with it.  

[Mike Sellers]

Finestraart has a urethane based coating that might be worth trying called Photographer`s Friend. www.finestraart.com

[StuNY]

Not intending to derail OP's thread, but since it seems to be answered already I will just chime in that I am thrilled with the ease of use and results with Eco Print Shield on canvas with my Epson 3880 and Hahnemuhle Monet Canvas for the last two years‎. I follow the recommended 3 layers, first two with gloss and last with satin. All used directly out of the bottle with a roller. Great stuff. There is some technique involved but I found the learning curve to be quick, and the water based cleanup is a dream. Roll it on, rinse the roller in the sink and put away. And no fumes. Canvas texture is all preserved beautifully and sure is nice to be able to sponge it clean when a guest hits it with a drink from across the room- long story haha!

[msongs]

thanks for your replies. have to order some new varnish soon. being in hawaii the shipping is really costly, especially since so many manufacturers seem to be in business to generate profits for UPS, not save money for customers. We find the post office to be much less expensive. It has been more cost effective to order a bulk purchase of canvas of different sizes plus varnish rather than order items seperately. However, yellowed canvas is certainly not cost effective.

will have to look into pricing and availability of suggested varnishes.

Msongs

[davidh202]

Not intending to derail OP's thread, but since it seems to be answered already I will just chime in that I am thrilled with the ease of use and results with Eco Print Shield on canvas with my Epson 3880 and Hahnemuhle Monet Canvas for the last two years‎. I follow the recommended 3 layers, first two with gloss and last with satin. All used directly out of the bottle with a roller. Great stuff. There is some technique involved but I found the learning curve to be quick, and the water based cleanup is a dream. Roll it on, rinse the roller in the sink and put away. And no fumes. Canvas texture is all preserved beautifully and sure is nice to be able to sponge it clean when a guest hits it with a drink from across the room- long story haha!

Ditto for me!
Eco Print Shield is fantastic to work with. I've got my system down pat and can probably can roll and clean up faster than anyone can spray ;-)

BTW  I also discovered  Garys trick of starting with a damp roller a long time ago.  I wash out the roller and store it in a heavy plastic freezer baggie which keeps it moist.

[Garnick]

Ditto for me!
Eco Print Shield is fantastic to work with. I've got my system down pat and can probably can roll and clean up faster than anyone can spray ;-)

BTW  I also discovered  Garys trick of starting with a damp roller a long time ago.  I wash out the roller and store it in a heavy plastic freezer baggie which keeps it moist.

The only thing I would be concerned about with storing the damp roller in a plastic bag might be the possibility of mold developing over a period of time.  Not at all certain that would/could happen, but it's at least food for thought I believe.  I always clean the roller thoroughly and let it sit until absolutely dry before storing it in a plastic bag with one end slightly open for some air circulation.  That way it will stay clean and dry.  It only takes a couple of minutes to wet it and then get most of the moisture out of it before using again.

Gary

[StuNY]

The only thing I would be concerned about with storing the damp roller in a plastic bag might be the possibility of mold developing over a period of time.  Not at all certain that would/could happen, but it's at least food for thought I believe.  I always clean the roller thoroughly and let it sit until absolutely dry before storing it in a plastic bag with one end slightly open for some air circulation.  That way it will stay clean and dry.  It only takes a couple of minutes to wet it and then get most of the moisture out of it before using again.

Gary

Yeah, I let mine dry out fully as well. I don't bother wetting roller before use anymore, just fully immerse in the coating and run across the tray a couple times to even up. I usually do 6-10 prints at same time now and just go heavy with the first coat across all of them for first pass. Then go back one by one to even out the coat. Seems to really help to give the coating some time to sit on the canvas before trying to get the bubbles and streaks rolled out. Still on my first 5 pack of home depot rollers, thought i would be burning through these things but with a good rinse after use they seem to last forever.

[davidh202]

Gary, yes mold could be a concern but I've been doing this for over two years now with absolutely no problem. I actually have been using the same roller for over a year 

Call me cheapskate
David

[Mike Guilbault]

Still on my first 5 pack of home depot rollers, thought i would be burning through these things but with a good rinse after use they seem to last forever.

Which rollers are you referring to?  I took a look at HD but only found the 'fuzzy' kind of rollers?

[jferrari]

Which rollers are you referring to?  I took a look at HD but only found the 'fuzzy' kind of rollers?

These. Often referred to as "hot dog rollers."

[StuNY]

These. Often referred to at "hot dog rollers."

Yep, same ones I use. They work very well.