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Author Topic: Mac Pro planing - For PhotoWhat would be an ideal level of memory and processors  (Read 4081 times)

JerryReed

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The soon to be announced Mac Pro will provide a big boost to the speed of processing and storage over existing Mac Pro.  As a PS CC user, the most intensive processing chore I am likely to use is the use of rendering in 3D.  I am processing LEAF Aptus II 12 files, after conversion Capture One.

Jerry Reed ???
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Mr. Rib

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Actually, unless things get very well optimised, current Mac Pro machines with beefed up specification (maybe some hacking to incorporate newest graphic cards etc) are faster than tests of the new, yet-to-be-released Mac Pro.. Check geekbench for details. The benefits of using new Mac Pro will lie in expandability (external of course :) and portability. Think about getting a Mac Pro from current generation once the new one hits the shelves- you'll save a lot of money that you can spend on a rendering server which will work parallel to your Mac. Food for thought.
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design_freak

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No!!! NO !!! NO!!!
It is foolish to buy the current generation, which is obsolete...
It is better to invest the money in Hackintosh!!

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Best regards,
DF

kers

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No!!! NO !!! NO!!! ....

please explain if you know:
the way i see it only two things the current MacPro are missing;

the latest processors; but are they so much faster? is there much progress on that front?
Light peak - also not available in a hackintosh

the other things ( like USB3- PCI-memory) can be installed in the 2010 MacPro
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Pieter Kers
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jduncan

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Actually, unless things get very well optimised, current Mac Pro machines with beefed up specification (maybe some hacking to incorporate newest graphic cards etc) are faster than tests of the new, yet-to-be-released Mac Pro.. Check geekbench for details. The benefits of using new Mac Pro will lie in expandability (external of course :) and portability. Think about getting a Mac Pro from current generation once the new one hits the shelves- you'll save a lot of money that you can spend on a rendering server which will work parallel to your Mac. Food for thought.

I will recommend to wait until the product is released. The current Mac Pro lack of thunderbolt is, for me, very important. USB3 could be added with a card:(http://www.sonnettech.com/product/allegrousb3pcie.html). It's not ideal but it will work.

I don't need the other slots, I have never change or buy a PCIe /PCI-x  card besides the graphics card. For photography and programing a PC /MAC with a good external array (like the Pegasus) is more than enough. You can change the PC  (or an iMAC) each 3  years and have a nice computer that performs at the highest megapixel count. When the day comes you sale your computer and buy a new one. With the Xeons at more than  2K is probably less expensive on the long run, than changing the CPUs of a workstation and buying cards for next generations IOs.

Videographers do need the power and the slots, but an external card box (http://www.sonnettech.com/product/thunderbolt/) will normally do, and you can use it on location with your laptop.

The new mac pro has 3 thunderbolt controllers so it will be like (3) 4x PCIe v2 slots.

I believe they should have done the box bigger, add support for dual processor configurations and have single PCIe card slot on the dual processor machines for tesla / Intel coprocessor  (and a thermal certification program).  I will also have love a USB3 port, CFAST and SD card slots in the front pannel.

The Xeon processor has 40PCIe lanes: 32 are used for the FirePros and you got 8 for the rest of the system, so the above configuration is  not possible without increasing the price with a single 8 and  12 core processor.

Lets wait and see. The custom form factor of the cards (and the little space for the SSD) concerns me. It seems that the machine will be a tiger upon release,but will not be able to keep with PC ecosystem, unless Apple invest big time.  They my have a long time contract with AMD for the cards.

The final issue is that Adobe is optimized for CUDA not for OpenCL so performance could suffer. iMacs do have Nvidia graphics. For critical color you need to add a 3th party monitor (or a couple) but that is normal.

Best regards,
J. Duncan



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english is not my first language, an I k

JerryReed

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Can you please provide more information about implications of your below statement?  Is it likely that ADOBE would not migrate the company's software to OpenCL?

Jerry

The final issue is that Adobe is optimized for CUDA not for OpenCL so performance could suffer. iMacs do have Nvidia graphics. For critical color you need to add a 3th party monitor (or a couple) but that is normal.

Best regards,
J. Duncan




[/quote]
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Mr. Rib

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And just one more thing- that cool feature of new Mac Pro- it's single fan to cool all the components, will actually be a dust volcano- it sucks the air from the bottom and releases it above through the whole in the middle. How impractical is that? That's the exact opposite of maxime "form follows function". It's all about flashiness, nothing about performance.. Apple should get their thinking straight- there's too much marketing and BS and too little actual improvement and work on design that MATTERS.
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Wayne Fox

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And just one more thing- that cool feature of new Mac Pro- it's single fan to cool all the components, will actually be a dust volcano- it sucks the air from the bottom and releases it above through the whole in the middle. How impractical is that? That's the exact opposite of maxime "form follows function". It's all about flashiness, nothing about performance.. Apple should get their thinking straight- there's too much marketing and BS and too little actual improvement and work on design that MATTERS.
Appears to be form/function working together very well.

The speed of the fan is regulated based on heat, and the vertical design is such that convection cooling will be pretty efficient, a very logical design. The fan may not even move much air most of the time. Obviously we need to wait and see, but considering the fan is very large so it can move much slower than most fans, along with the passion Apple has to make things like this as quiet as possible the design is pretty logical.

In all PC's dust exits somewhere but the amount of dust buildup happens on surfaces interfering with the air flow but takes significant time.  Whatever dust comes out of the top will just be the same as was already in the air, and will disperse to the same density as it was and the rest of the room in moments. 

There will be no spewing dust or even a detectable change in the dust coming out of the top.
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CptZar

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Actually, unless things get very well optimised, current Mac Pro machines with beefed up specification (maybe some hacking to incorporate newest graphic cards etc) are faster than tests of the new, yet-to-be-released Mac Pro.. Check geekbench for details.



Where did you find geekbench results for a not yet released product?
« Last Edit: October 13, 2013, 02:25:49 am by CptZar »
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design_freak

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Mr. Rib knows everything about everything ...
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Best regards,
DF

Mr. Rib

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CptZar - Apple always tests their new products prototypes under codenames with geekbench:
http://www.macrumors.com/2013/06/19/apples-new-mac-pro-begins-showing-up-in-benchmarks/

...and yet another design_freak's informative and subject-related statement...Care to elaborate on the benefits and advantages of this new machine vs current Mac Pro? I'm also very interested how you'd address kers questions. Please enlighten me.

+ edit: I consider this forum to be a place to express one's opinion, if I didn't have a clue about subject's matter, I wouldn't take the floor. I happened to be very interestd in new Mac Pro and kind of eager to see an update, but for me the announcement was a letdown. I was hoping for much much more PRO.
« Last Edit: October 13, 2013, 09:20:21 pm by Mr. Rib »
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Chris_Brown

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And just one more thing- that cool feature of new Mac Pro- it's single fan to cool all the components, will actually be a dust volcano- it sucks the air from the bottom and releases it above through the whole in the middle. How impractical is that?

Haha! It makes for a perfect hand warmer and/or toaster.  :D
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~ CB

design_freak

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I wrote it is better to buy a "Hackintosh" for half price if you are thinking of the old generation Mac Pro. The old generation of MAC PRO is the dinosaur: the old slow memory, processors, controllers. Many people complain about the new MAC PRO: they would like to have cheap memory, cheap extension. Progress has never been cheap.  Another thing, optimizing applications for this technology. It's hard to talk about, as this equipment is not yet available, apps as well. Even  it is difficult to measure the performance, there is no appropriate tools. It is worth to think about. If you need a computer now, buy a Hackintosh, if you want a new MAC PRO - wait until it is available in stores, when the new Mac Pro will be free from common ailments for new equipment.

Sorry for my english. This is not my native language  :)
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DF

studio347

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People say that we need about three times big ram of the biggest file size we work with. Since my biggest working file size is sometimes about 10 GB, I'd love to have 36 GB ram.
I want to have 500GB or more SSD drive inside for system, office, capture, working files. I also want to have a thunderbolt 500GB SSD for outside, 15 M delay, chronosync backup of capture and important work files. For me, the best core and video card are less important for now.
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julienlanoo

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New mac pro: everything external, it will just be yet an other bunch of mess bellow the desk, and thousands of xtra cables, !!! Useless, abd not rack mountable on a orderly fashion, now one will spend 5 K on a mac pro, an xtra 2k on a TB enclosure to put all ones PCI s in, and both will not match..

My technique: buy the latest mac mini, open it up put 2 killer SSDs in it in Raid0, aftermarket Ram, ( after marked cable by fixit needed) and put everything in a Nice rackmountable enclosure... Killer graphics cards and usb 3 is also posdible withe the right enclosure...

New Mac pro will be like the old cube a flop...

More than enough for photography...

Even when you do away with the mini's case and cool it correctly one can easely overclock..

Mhm
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John.Murray

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New mac pro: everything external, it will just be yet an other bunch of mess bellow the desk, and thousands of xtra cables, !!! Useless, abd not rack mountable on a orderly fashion, now one will spend 5 K on a mac pro, an xtra 2k on a TB enclosure to put all ones PCI s in, and both will not match..

My technique: buy the latest mac mini, open it up put 2 killer SSDs in it in Raid0, aftermarket Ram, ( after marked cable by fixit needed) and put everything in a Nice rackmountable enclosure... Killer graphics cards and usb 3 is also posdible withe the right enclosure...

New Mac pro will be like the old cube a flop...

More than enough for photography...

Even when you do away with the mini's case and cool it correctly one can easely overclock..

Mhm

Sorry - just *have* to jump in here.  This post is full of ridiculous information.

Statements regarding cabling from the new Mac Pro would equally apply to the Mac Mini; in either case a *single* TB cable to a PCIe cabinet and possibly a 2nd to Storage takes care of expansion - hardly clutter

Raid 0 is a *dumb* idea unless you don't care about your data, even given that, Raid 0 on SSD on OS X defeats O/S trim ability (RAID 0 trim is only supported on Windows on Intel's H77 &Z78 chipsets using Intel's driver).  The only way to trim is to perform an image backup, break the RAID pair, perform manual trim on both individual drives, recreate the RAID pair, then restore the image.....

I'd like to know how you put a 3rd party graphics card in a mini ....

overclocking after removing the enclosure? Really?  

All that said - you would do well to consider a mini, especially if you are just staying with photos, and not considering video

Finally - hackintosh was offered as an alternative, although certainly doable, the fact remains that it violates Apple's licensing terms.  Enforcement (or lack of) aside; I, as an IT professional wouldn't even consider it, I'm assuming the OP as a professional wouldn't either.....

« Last Edit: October 16, 2013, 08:03:29 pm by John.Murray »
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Graham Welland

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I'll wait. I got 5 years out of my MacPro and I'm happy for LLoyd Chambers to do the R&D for photo work.

I may just clean up when current spec MacPro folks go la la over the new stuff and get a last spec existing MacPro at a decent price.

Once they hit the streets we'll know when to jump in.
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Graham

julienlanoo

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Sorry - just *have* to jump in here.  This post is full of ridiculous information.

Statements regarding cabling from the new Mac Pro would equally apply to the Mac Mini; in either case a *single* TB cable to a PCIe cabinet and possibly a 2nd to Storage takes care of expansion - hardly clutter

Raid 0 is a *dumb* idea unless you don't care about your data, even given that, Raid 0 on SSD on OS X defeats O/S trim ability (RAID 0 trim is only supported on Windows on Intel's H77 &Z78 chipsets using Intel's driver).  The only way to trim is to perform an image backup, break the RAID pair, perform manual trim on both individual drives, recreate the RAID pair, then restore the image.....

I'd like to know how you put a 3rd party graphics card in a mini ....



overclocking after removing the enclosure? Really?  

All that said - you would do well to consider a mini, especially if you are just staying with photos, and not considering video

Finally - hackintosh was offered as an alternative, although certainly doable, the fact remains that it violates Apple's licensing terms.  Enforcement (or lack of) aside; I, as an IT professional wouldn't even consider it, I'm assuming the OP as a professional wouldn't either.....



Have to awnser on this, ..

The point was of 1 - Price and 2 Tidy desk..

- The point of the mac pro was just you could build it up inside the case. Now it becomes just a large mac mini, that can not be nicely put away..
- The mac mini, is nice because you can easely buy cases to put it in, and have extra  expandability ( via thunderbolt ok but it's inside 1 CASE)  for instance by Sonet.

Every one knows with just a computer you haven't enough equipment you HAVE to put extra stuf on it ... And this is cables and this is a collection of dust, and this is annoying .. And for some one wit OCD not good for the state of mind. Also if you pay big bucks for all your equipent ( from camera's to display) it's normal you want to keep it clean and well maintained ..

I have a beefed up Mac mini, with the 2 disk solution for speed and 3the party Ram ( ok expensive ram but anyway) it's mounted in this: http://www.sonnettech.com/product/xmacminiserver.html and i have a PCI card for scsi ( imacon scanner) and a better graphics card for my screens in it, works perfectly fine,. This is just the " produciton machine" , the back up of he produciton happens on an other " rack mountable" Raid disk above it ( not large only 2 TB) ( once an hour ) and then again on external HD Once a day ...  So i have 1 version of the file on the mac mini, then once an hour it goes to the Backup raid disk, and then again once a day to the external one. So on back up it's well covered and if i do some thing stupit i can ALWAYS go back to the previous one within the production.

-> The point of this could be: yes but this is not cheap, .. Shure! but it's dynamic, i can do different things with it and build it as needed while using mac... ( as long as there is no support for Linux systems,) and i also just have to change the "computer" on it if i need to or just the cards - it's like building a techincal camera system), look to this: http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/09/12/phonebloks_n_3908611.html , it has to evolve to a as open as possible system, but all systems go to as closed as possible, being mac, or windows, or whatever, <-

Every one knows if you work day in day out with hudge files, it's impossible to save everything on 2TB, and disks directly on the system are not a good solution, not expandable, not multi user etc etc, SO , when post production is finished, it automatically goes to the "ARCHIVING" server ( on the network) where again it's backuped up in RAID and on TAPE ...

The only difference the new mac pro will make is: the price ( as one basically needs the same system to do all the add ons because the machine is not expandable inside so it also has to happen inside the machine) . You nee much more space in your rack ( as it's a tube, and larger, so i guess a U3 or something like that where the Mac mini solution is U1),...  For photography ( his is a photography forum no ?), this is overkill right now..

Also Video People, serious post production studios, like to keep their equipment tidy as they have so much different expensive boxes, from Tape readers, to render boxes, to sound , to capture readers, to satellite transmitters, and backup disks, production disks and so on..
And then Apple comes with a machine that can not be incorporated in the system they already have ( well it will be possible but take up loads of space)... it's stupid , ( i think Avid and Quantel are quite happy now ) ...

I have no problem with the Imac being beautifull, or a macbook air, or whatever.. But a "Pro machine" has to be dynamic, and i don't hink a trash-can design is dynamic..

Again it's not about the power of the machin that's Fantastic, but it's put in a completely useless form..
I had SGI's before, nice machines, but the rubbish gets around it...

The new Mac-pro is NOT A BAD COMPUTER, IT's BAD DESIGN!!
« Last Edit: October 18, 2013, 07:31:02 am by julienlanoo »
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