Hasselblad's sensors: nothing newer than 2008?

[BJL]

As far as I can tell, no Hasselblad MF back has a newer sensor than the 60MP Dalsa FTC9168C in the H4D, which is also used in the Phase One P65+, so that it dates back at least to July 2008. Is this right, and of so, what does that say about Hasselblad's intentions or ability with respect to sensor improvements? Phase One/Leaf/Mamiya has introduced two newer sensors after that one.

[abiggs]

Hasselblad hasn't invested a penny in R&D in many years and it is showing. And the Lunar product seems to be the only thing they have 'invested' in, even though that isn't R&D by my standards. It's really sad, unfortunately.

[Ken R]

As far as I can tell, no Hasselblad MF back has a newer sensor than the 60MP Dalsa FTC9168C in the H4D, which is also used in the Phase One P65+, so that it dates back at least to July 2008. Is this right, and of so, what does that say about Hasselblad's intentions or ability with respect to sensor improvements? Phase One/Leaf/Mamiya has introduced two newer sensors after that one.

It's an awesome sensor (I own a IQ160) but yes only phase one has continuously (w/ Dalsa) developed high MP (60/80) Medium Format Digital sensors. IMHO for landscape photography applications only the 60 and 80 mp sensors make sense otherwise I rather use a DSLR. For portrait and studio even the older backs are superb since they still have that medium format depth of field characteristic and the color depth and accuracy are better than dslrs. I really like the H1 platform. Glad Hasselblad has continued to support it and even updated the lens line which is great. So even though the sensor is "old" it is still a great piece of kit.

[eronald]

As far as I can tell, no Hasselblad MF back has a newer sensor than the 60MP Dalsa FTC9168C in the H4D, which is also used in the Phase One P65+, so that it dates back at least to July 2008. Is this right, and of so, what does that say about Hasselblad's intentions or ability with respect to sensor improvements? Phase One/Leaf/Mamiya has introduced two newer sensors after that one.

There was a time when MF sensors were expensive to design and expensive to make - now they are neither, but the MF firms are broke and have lost the wish to compete.

Edmund

[Doug Peterson]

It's unclear which companies you mean to include in your comment about "MF firms" but Team Phase One's financials are doing very well. Sales have been up every year since the financial crash. This is reflected in the very heavy investment over the last several years resulting in (so far) an entirely new line of digital backs, the IQ (and a meaningful update to that new line, IQ2), the release of a big update to Capture One and several new lenses.

I have no info on other MF companies.

[eronald]

It's unclear which companies you mean to include in your comment about "MF firms" but Team Phase One's financials are doing very well. Sales have been up every year since the financial crash. This is reflected in the very heavy investment over the last several years resulting in (so far) an entirely new line of digital backs, the IQ (and a meaningful update to that new line, IQ2), the release of a big update to Capture One and several new lenses.

I have no info on other MF companies.

Doug,

  Well, when I speak of the "MF firms" I was speaking historically. We do seem to agree that Phase are doing well since Leaf got bought by Phase, and Sinar backs disappeared, thereby just about halving the number of the independent parties; Ah yes, then there was the Mamiya camera and back, but Mamiya alas was also taken over by ... Phase. I think this is what economists call consolidation. As the lady who came back from the ride might have tastefully said, "I appreciate being given a chance to contribute to the survival of an endangered species".

  By the way, since you are in the know, what is the exact status of the involvement of Phase with Microsoft? An what about the rumors that Phase itself is now being viewed for a possible ecological contribution by a large company?
  
There was a young lady from Niger,
Who went for a ride on a tiger
They came from the ride
With the lady inside
And a smile on the face of the Tiger.

Edmund

[Doug Peterson]

By the way, since you are in the know, what is the exact status of the involvement of Phase with Microsoft? An what about the rumors that Phase itself is now being viewed for a possible ecological contribution by a large company?

Phase One bought Media Pro and it's associated IP from Microsoft. That's the only MS<>P1 collaboration I'm aware of. If there is more it has not been made public or if it was made public I missed the memo.

As for the rumors you reference I see no reason to consider that something more than link-bait.

[jerome_m]

Hasselblad hasn't invested a penny in R&D in many years and it is showing. And the Lunar product seems to be the only thing they have 'invested' in, even though that isn't R&D by my standards. It's really sad, unfortunately.

I am a bit surprised at the continuous bashing of Hasselblad on Internet forums.

OK, I agree that they deserve some criticism for the Lunar abomination. But the H line is still being developed and saying that they did not invest a penny in R&D is simply not true. The H5D is a complete redesign internally, and is much faster than the H4D. They also presented the HCD 24mm last year. They don't have a 80 mpix back, but then phase one does not have a multishot back either.

[eronald]

I am a bit surprised at the continuous bashing of Hasselblad on Internet forums.

OK, I agree that they deserve some criticism for the Lunar abomination. But the H line is still being developed and saying that they did not invest a penny in R&D is simply not true. The H5D is a complete redesign internally, and is much faster than the H4D. They also presented the HCD 24mm last year. They don't have a 80 mpix back, but then phase one does not have a multishot back either.

Nobody is bashing the H series here, they are seriously regarded, although maybe under-represented. I think the Hassleblad owners forum is restricted to owners, am I right?

Edmund

[Dustbak]

You are partially right. The forum has a section that is only for owners. No need having to wade through tons of bashing to find the answer you were looking for with a specific question.

As for R&D.
The newly designed 120MacroII (much better closeup performance I must say), the New HC50MKII, a new close-up lens (like an 8mm extention), the H5D, the HCD24, just to name a few of the most recent items that have come from R&D. Oh, and I forgot the multishot backs in particular the 200MS.

For the immediate future, I hear enough around me to be worried about where HB is heading but so do I from a lot of other companies too.... many are currently struggling to stay in business.

[jerome_m]

I think the Hasselblad owners forum is restricted to owners, am I right?

There is an official Hasselblad owners forum? Where? Or do you mean the Hasselblad owner's club on the manufacturer's web site? To my knowledge, it does not include a forum.

[Dustbak]

Edmund means the Hasselbladdigitalforum run by NickT. This is derived from the FlexFrame usergroup (which is still running too BTW) and houses a large number of Hasselblad owners. If you own a digital Hasselblad you can register and become part of it. Upside is that a lot of knowledge is available to help when needed.

[ErikKaffehr]

Hi,


I guess the problem is that you cannot put a Phase One back on a Hassy, would Hasselblad sell and market the H4X to ton H1/H2 owners I would guess they would get new customers. My guess is the LuLa readers are more pro Phase One backs than they are anti Hasselblad. Phase One has done a lot of development recently, H5D may be new, but it may be perceived that there is little development going on regarding the backs.

Best regards
Erik

I am a bit surprised at the continuous bashing of Hasselblad on Internet forums.

OK, I agree that they deserve some criticism for the Lunar abomination. But the H line is still being developed and saying that they did not invest a penny in R&D is simply not true. The H5D is a complete redesign internally, and is much faster than the H4D. They also presented the HCD 24mm last year. They don't have a 80 mpix back, but then phase one does not have a multishot back either.

[jerome_m]

Edmund means the Hasselbladdigitalforum run by NickT.

Got it. I don't think it requires you to own an Hass. camera to join. Of course, it makes little sense to join if you don't. This being said, that forum is not very active.

[jduncan]

I am a bit surprised at the continuous bashing of Hasselblad on Internet forums.

OK, I agree that they deserve some criticism for the Lunar abomination. But the H line is still being developed and saying that they did not invest a penny in R&D is simply not true. The H5D is a complete redesign internally, and is much faster than the H4D. They also presented the HCD 24mm last year. They don't have a 80 mpix back, but then phase one does not have a multishot back either.

I agree with you: The H5D is new.  I also understand that exclusive agreements between Phase One and Dalsa don't let them have access to the 80mpixel sensor. But I can't stop noticing that they don't even have the H5D-60 on their site as ready (http://www.hasselblad.com). They did not build a  H5D-240 (you will need to invest because the sensor is of different size).

You say that the H5D is faster and better. Where is the campaign showing that? Do they release comparison videos?

They are harming themselves.

Best regards,
Jduncan

[jerome_m]

I don't think there are videos showing the difference in speed, but this observation has been reported by people able to test the H5D. There are also reports that the H5D was redesigned internally because manufacturing of the body moved from Japan back to Sweden.

You are right that the H5D-60 is delayed. There could be various reasons for that, but it does not mean that R&D of the H line is abandoned.

[Dustbak]

I agree with you: The H5D is new.  I also understand that exclusive agreements between Phase One and Dalsa don't let them have access to the 80mpixel sensor. But I can't stop noticing that they don't even have the H5D-60 on their site as ready (http://www.hasselblad.com). They did not build a  H5D-240 (you will need to invest because the sensor is of different size).

You say that the H5D is faster and better. Where is the campaign showing that? Do they release comparison videos?

They are harming themselves.

Best regards,
Jduncan

I did not say the H5 is faster and better someone else did. If you ask me, I do find the H5 faster, more stable and better in a lot of areas. I also find that some things are still not at a level where they should but I have been assured that they are working on those areas. All things considered the H is now a pretty mature product line with a lot of possibilities.

I don't need a campaign for these things. I own a H5 as well as a H4.

The HB forum is not very active but people that want to know something or have issues are being answered pretty quickly.

[slackercruster]

There was a time when MF sensors were expensive to design and expensive to make - now they are neither, but the MF firms are broke and have lost the wish to compete.

Edmund

I wish they would come out with a FF digital back for the old film cams. Low mp would be fine if it was FF. Main thing is it must be affordable and FF to work like film did on a SWC.

[EricWHiss]

Yes, I'd like to see a big pixel 6x6 sensor.  Could be made for H and for Rollei too.

[rem]

Jerome, for me is the H5D slower than the H4D. When you switch on, you have longer to wait to take the first picture. when you will check the blinking part on the screen (overexposed), then you have to wait 4-5 sec....
rem