And the best wide angle for Phase One is...

[Rob Whitehead]

I asked a question about this about wides for the Phase One system a couple of weeks back. At the time, I'd never shot with a medium format DSLR and was hoping for some further information before making some final purchasing decisions. The thread contains lots of opinions that I found very useful. However, one thing that I found to be in short supply was any actual test data.

With that in mind, in case it's helpful to anyone else, here's the result of a quick lens test.

I currently own the Phase One 28mm, the Mamiya 35mm (non-D, but said to be a good copy) and the Phase One 45mm as wide lenses.

This evening, I took my kit out to the salt piles down the road around sunset. All the shots were taken with good technique to maximise the image quality - good tripod (no centre column) and ball head (both RRS), cable release, mirror lock-up. Taken using Av mode at f/11, ISO 50, autofocus. The salt pile is in the centre of each of the three frames. JPEGs are saved at 100% quality.

These are 100% crops. I've processed in Lightroom today, sharpening at 61%. I've done one bit of post-processing in Photoshop - a mild adjustment of the midtones using levels to make the brightness level pretty close in all three.

There's one poorly controlled variable you need to take into account when viewing these, and that's the changing light. You can see there's a slight glow of the sun still present on the side of the salt in the 35mm shot, the 28mm and 45mm shots don't have any direct light on them. Next time I'll do this an hour earlier!

The first test is centre sharpness. Teh order of images is, left to right, 28mm, 35mm, 45mm (of course).

I'll give you my two cents, but the images are here for you to decide for yourself. For my money, the 35mm wins with the 45mm being a close second. Interestingly, the expensive lens in the lineup - the 28mm - doesn't quite match the other two when it comes to the centre. Teh reason I find it interesting is that someone made a comment in the other thread that the 28mm is a pretty good 35mm lens. Well, it may end up better in the corners if you're cropping, but you're going to be losing out in the centre of you do that compared with the previous-gen 35mm. As I've heard nothing good - pretty much ever! - about the Mamiya 35mm, I'm sort of pleased that it's doing something right

Anyway here are the 100% centre crops:

[Rob Whitehead]

And here's the second picture - the centre crops, resized with free transform (28mm enlarged, 45mm shrunk) - just for a bit more data e.g. if you were going to use your 28mm as a 35mm via cropping.

I'll follow this up with a comparison of the edges when I get a chance. I'm guessing this won't be so kind to the 35mm.

[Rob Whitehead]

Here's the overall test image, as shot by the 28mm. The tripod wasn't moved between shots so the 35mm and 45mm are 'crops' of this image.

I've indicated the approximate position of the 400x400px centre crops, and the exact picture of the forthcoming 800x400 edge crop.

[Rob Whitehead]

The edge crops are from the right lateral aspect of the photo, as indicated in the image in the previous post. The 35mm and 45mm are obviously going to be closer to the centre than the box indicated on the 28mm image.

For me, it's the edges here rather than the corners that I care most about. I often crop down to panorama aspect ratios so I can live with average corners. But I really need the lateral edges to be sharp.

Here are the images, 28mm on top, 35mm middle, 45mm bottom.

[Paul2660]

Thanks for posting the results.  I'd you get a chance you really should compare the results of the Schneider 35mm digital to you 35mm I think you will be surprised by the results.  The tech camera solution gives tilt to the 35mm at least Arca does not sure on others. But even without tilt the Schneider should show considerable improvement over the 35mm Mamiya. 

Glad you have a good copy however.  It's also possible the your 28mm could be a copy that is not so good.  Back when I was using the Mamiya 28 I had to send mine to Mamiya 3 times before they got it right.

Paul Caldwell

[Rob Whitehead]

Hey Paul,

I'm shooting Cambo for tech camera so no tilt on the standard lenses. The only Cambo lens I've got is the 45mm Rodenstock, and only had that for less than a week. I haven't yet directly tested it against the Phase 45mm but wil be interested to do so. Or you can drop in here with your 35mm Schneider, and we'll hit the salt piles for a quick test. You'd like it here!

[Doug Peterson]

Perhaps sample variation on your copy of the 28 or slight misfocus (easy to do with strong retrofocus lenses which tend to exhibit field curvature).

As you can see in our Phase One 28 vs Schneider 28LS vs Rodenstock 32 test a normal copy of the 28, focused perfectly, is quite sharp in the center. This is mirrored by my experience with maybe a half dozen Phase One 28 lenses over the last several years.

But the "best wide angle for Phase One" is the Rodenstock 32HR in my opinion. You'd have to be more specific and say "best autofocus-capable wide angle for Phase One" before I'd relent .

[Doug Peterson]

The edge crops are from the right lateral aspect of the photo, as indicated in the image in the previous post. The 35mm and 45mm are obviously going to be closer to the centre than the box indicated on the 28mm image.

For me, it's the edges here rather than the corners that I care most about. I often crop down to panorama aspect ratios so I can live with average corners. But I really need the lateral edges to be sharp.

Here are the images, 28mm on top, 35mm middle, 45mm bottom.

Have you tried processing in Capture One with lens corrections (including chromatic aberration) on? In addition to greatly reducing or eliminating the very strong magenta/green haloing you'll also increase apparent sharpness as the software tries to recreate the scene based on a map of the per-channel focus shift.

[Doug Peterson]

I asked a question about this about wides for the Phase One system a couple of weeks back. At the time, I'd never shot with a medium format DSLR and was hoping for some further information before making some final purchasing decisions. The thread contains lots of opinions that I found very useful. However, one thing that I found to be in short supply was any actual test data.

Did you ask your dealer for test images? We maintain a database with raw files from every lens for our customers, and, as called for do custom testing for our customers for whom our database does not resolve their questions.

You got a pretty good sampling of feedback from a variety of long-term phase shooters. And I think I speak for everyone here when I say we all appreciate you returning the favor with feedback of your own post-purchase . Thanks!

[Doug Peterson]

These are 100% crops. I've processed in Lightroom today, sharpening at 61%. I've done one bit of post-processing in Photoshop - a mild adjustment of the midtones using levels to make the brightness level pretty close in all three.

Any chance you could post the same crops as processed in C1? It's partly a relative/aesthetic judgement but my preference for the rendering of 100% detail of distant-highly-detailed objects is C1 hands down, especially vis a vis the look when moderate sharpening is applied.

[Rob Whitehead]

Hi Doug,

1. Best wide for Phase One. Cameras. Good luck with the gaffer tape getting the 32HR on your DF

2. It's not focus, I think. The 35mm and 45mm out-ressolve the 28mm right in the centre (my copies). The FOV of the 28mm is of course wider so it's a smaller salt pile that's been uprezzed - not suprising that these are a bit better (though I'm still suprised the 35mm is as sharp as it is). I've overlayed the images, by the middle of the 35mm frame (e.g. the bridge) the 28mm is definitely sharper when I look at the streetlights. The sharpness of the 28mm is actually pretty good in the extreme edge crops to my eyes - if I look at the rocks to the left of the crop. But it doesn't perform as well across the frame as the 45mm, which for me is the champion of the three.

3. I'll try and process them in C1 for you.

I've also tested the 75-150 zoom against the 80mm LS, 120mm macro and 150mm Mamiya this afternoon at similar focal lengths. But that's for another thread...

[Rob Whitehead]

Just for you, Doug.

Left to right:

28mm Lightroom processed at 61% sharpness
28mm C1 processed using the Phase One 28mm lens profile, 200% sharpness
35mm processed via LR

Doesn't help, the LR version is, I believe, actually somewhat sharper than the C1 version. 35mm still wins for centre sharpness in this test.

Can I just say - hurrah! - this is the first time the Mamiya 35mm has ever won ANYTHING. We should all just be happy for it. 

[Rob Whitehead]

OK, the C1-processed version of the 28mm edge crop.

Lightroom processed 28mm on top, Capture One processed 28mm on the bottom

I think the lightroom version is slight sharper (look at the powerlines). But it's unusably bad due to the green cast around the light poles, and this bit of the frame would probably need to be cropped. Note, I didn't try using lens corrections in LR (it does come with a 28mm Phase One lens profile).

Capture one seems to do a pretty good job of getting rid of the unpleasant green fringe around the poles. Overall, I definitely prefer this version at the edges.

[Iluvmycam]

Do you have any sample pix to post from the other lenses discussed here?

[Rob Whitehead]

You mean the longer lenses? If so, i shot tests of them as well at the same spot. I'll post my results anon.

Not tonight though...after midnight over here. Sleepy....

[Doug Peterson]

Default noise reduction is being applied to the C1 image. Turn luminance noise reduction to 0-10 (rather than 50) and increase details to 60-65 and sharpen to taste and the result will be MUCH nicer (assuming you liked the LR image which favors microdetail over smoothness - which is my preference as well).

Note you can change the defaults in C1 so that you don't have to do this in the future.

[narikin]

But the "best wide angle for Phase One" is the Rodenstock 32HR in my opinion. You'd have to be more specific and say "best autofocus-capable wide angle for Phase One" before I'd relent .

+1 with Doug. There is no comparison between a tech cam wide angle lens, like the Rodenstock he mentions (though there are many others) and a Phase One Autofocus wide angle.  Worlds apart, like night and day.

Yes this sounds silly, but you already own the expensive bit - the MF digital back,and if you are a dedicated wide angle shooter, and don't need auto focus, then it is something to consider for your work. You also get movements (shift, cross, tilt, etc) into the deal.

[Rob Whitehead]

+1 with Doug. There is no comparison between a tech cam wide angle lens, like the Rodenstock he mentions (though there are many others) and a Phase One Autofocus wide angle.  Worlds apart, like night and day.

Yes this sounds silly, but you already own the expensive bit - the MF digital back,and if you are a dedicated wide angle shooter, and don't need auto focus, then it is something to consider for your work. You also get movements (shift, cross, tilt, etc) into the deal.

Yes I agree that tech cameras rule for wide angle. I've had my DF for a couple of weeks, and added a Cambo Wide RS to the mix last Thursday to get the most out of the digital back. But there are times when the speed and convenience of an SLR wins, and I know a lot of people round here shoot with them when using their Phase backs.

So this thread is really to consider: if you're shooting with a Phase One DF/DF+, what are the best wide angles to use for it.