Initial results with Canon Pro100

[rgs]

OK one more Canon Pro 100 thread. Sorry. But I hope it's interesting, informative, and different enough from the others to warrant it's own thread.

I've been trying out several papers and my first impressions are:

• All of the fibre, baryta, or rag papers I have tried so far have been rather flat and dull in color but...
• B&W just sings on Canson Platine and Ilford Gold Mono.
• Color printing is magnificent and works best on RC papers which are, I think, more permanent with the dye ink. Harman Gloss seems to have come the closest for a fibre paper.
• So far my favorites for color are Canon Lustre, Canon Pro Platinum, Canon Pro Plus, All of the Canson RCs, Ilford Galerie Prestige Smooth Gloss, Ilford Galerie Prestige Smooth Pearl, and Red River Arctic Polar Satin
• I do not like the Canon Semi Gloss. It Looks a bit veiled to me.

Overall I'm very impressed with this printer and don't seem to be going through ink as fast as I expected. I have several other papers to try but I think my initial results are good for general guidelines. It also seems to fit with the prevailing wisdom about dye printers.

[Mark Lindquist]

Where are you getting the ICC profiles for all of those papers?  (Obviously Canon papers comes with their own).

Are the ICC profiles for these papers (for the Canon Pro-100) listed on their websites?

[rgs]

Yes. Canson has published ICC profiles that include physical printer settings in the profile name. Ilford and Red River have always published many profiles for Canon dye printers. Hahnemuhle now has a good number of profiles, including the Harman ones. Looking around at other paper manufacturers, I have found many profiles for the Pro 100, even from companies that historically did not profile dye printers. It seems this printer is making some people re-think the preference for pigment printers and the paper companies are responding.

[arlon]

Certainly reinforces what I've heard. It seems like this is a great printer when it's right and a stinker when it isn't. Instead of doing everything decently I seem to be reading that it does things really well IF you get the right combination of papers, profiles and such. I'm starting a collection of peoples favorite combinations for this printer. Hopefully I'll find a few of my own.

[rgs]

Certainly reinforces what I've heard. It seems like this is a great printer when it's right and a stinker when it isn't. Instead of doing everything decently I seem to be reading that it does things really well IF you get the right combination of papers, profiles and such. I'm starting a collection of peoples favorite combinations for this printer. Hopefully I'll find a few of my own.

This may be a bit of an overstatement of my original post. The Canon seems to exhibit the same weakness with fiber type papers for which dye is known, but it is magnificent with many RC types. What is new is it's really nice B&W with some fiber/baryta/rag papers.

[arlon]

My first trys with color were better than could have hoped for but the BW were dismal failures. Just using the canon Luster paper and supplied color profile. BW wasn't even close to the monitor. Need to do some more research on that or simply copy your finding. Ordered a pack of the Ilford you mentioned, I'll see what that does.

[Czornyj]

My first trys with color were better than could have hoped for but the BW were dismal failures. Just using the canon Luster paper and supplied color profile. BW wasn't even close to the monitor. Need to do some more research on that or simply copy your finding. Ordered a pack of the Ilford you mentioned, I'll see what that does.

Monitor neutrality is not something I would rely on as a reference point. And the neutrality of a print is a very complex and relative subject.

[Evanford]

Just wanted to chime in to say for many of the papers mentioned by the OP, icc  profiles can be downloaded from both the paper manufacturer and Canon website.   Canon makes profiles for the PRO-100, Pro-10, Pro-1 printers for Ilford, Canson, and several other paper manufacturers.   You may have to fiddle with the driver settings or Lightroom print adjustment settings for brightness/tone, but I am finding these profile to be quite good. 

[rgs]

Just printed a beautiful canvas on Canson HD canvas. I only had one piece but the Canon and Canson's profile got it first time. This printer looks good to me on canvas.

I should point out that this is a purely subjective judgement. No test files or measurements. Just seeing how my photos look printed with this printer. And pleased more than not.

[rgs]

Just wanted to chime in to say for many of the papers mentioned by the OP, icc  profiles can be downloaded from both the paper manufacturer and Canon website.   Canon makes profiles for the PRO-100, Pro-10, Pro-1 printers for Ilford, Canson, and several other paper manufacturers.   You may have to fiddle with the driver settings or Lightroom print adjustment settings for brightness/tone, but I am finding these profile to be quite good.  

Thanks for making that information. I didn't know Canon had done that. In the past they have not don so. I wish Epson and HP would do the same. It just makes sense to make your printer easy to use with third party paper rather than just their own paper.

Here's the link I found. http://www.usa.canon.com/cusa/consumer/standard_display/3rd_party_papers. That is a really extensive list.

[rgs]

Canson papers are proving very nice with the Canon PRO 100. I have found a rag paper that works well the the printer. It's Canson Rag Photographique. They make this paper in 2 weights. The one I tried was the 310GSM version. Colors are rich and deep and not at all muted. I have had trouble finding a rag paper for this printer but this one works really well. I'm going to get some more of this paper. It's just beautiful.

The other paper is Canson PhotoSatin Premium RC. It is a nice paper with a soft gloss that looks a little like the classic air dried fiber paper of the film era. The surface texture is very subtle. It doesn't appear to have the veiling that Canon's Semi-Gloss and some other Satins seem to have. This one could become one of my main papers.

I'll stop for a while. Many readers have probably heard too much from me. I'm just happy to be finding a range of papers for the Canon printer and want to share it with others.

[Robert DeCandido PhD]

http://www.dpreview.com/forums/post/52183618

[dgberg]

Have you tried any of the Pictorico Hi-Gloss white film?
After seeing your other thread about water.
 I have only found out after the fact the Pictorico has no durability whatsoever.
You better be putting it under glass or plexi facemounted if you want it to last.
This is all with the Claria Dye Epson 1430.
Would like to find out from someone else that has used this if it is more ink or paper related or both?

Is the canon Lustre a super hi gloss? Have you tried to scratch the surface after printing/ I see in the other thread it passed the water test?
I tried the Canon Premium gloss paper with the 1430 and the look does not come close to the Pictorico hi gloss film look.

[rgs]

I have not tried Pictorico. All I can find locally is Ilford, Canon (limited), Epson and HP and then most often only in glossy surfaces. I usually order paper from out of town but am hesitant to spend lots of money until I'm sure of what I am ordering. I have the Canson papers because they were kind enough to send me two sample packs and I have the Harman because I bought it when it first came out. I was not happy with Harman and the printer I had at the time so I saved it and it seems to be a good match for the PRO 100.

I am not a fan of ultra glossy surfaces but I did try Canson's super glossy. It's a little thicker (320gsm) and I put it through the standard paper path which is generally only good for about 310 gsm. I should have used the rear path instead. It's designed for thicker paper. The surface may be a little fragile, it had a little damage from the printer. That said, the print was very nice. If you like glossy papers, Canson is worth a look and it may be a bit tougher than Pictorico. The paper looked a lot like old Cibachrome. Ilford also makes a super glossy film that has that Cibachrome look.

I have become a Canson fan. I'll be buying Canon's Platine, Rag Photographique, and Photo Satin Premium RC. I will also be using Ilford Smooth Gloss (at least until I use up what I have) and Canon Pro Luster

[dgberg]

None of this is for me.
Am more then happy with my pigment printers 3880 and 9900.
They just are not the best for hi gloss papers.
I have several clients that want the hi gloss.
The only reason I purchased a dye machine.
That's where it really shines.

[aslowdodge]

I just bought one of these brand new for $80 from someone who never openned it but cut off the bar code for the $300 rebate. How archival is this printer and how heavy can the canvas be? Does the canvas feed from the top or back?

[rgs]

I just bought one of these brand new for $80 from someone who never openned it but cut off the bar code for the $300 rebate. How archival is this printer and how heavy can the canvas be? Does the canvas feed from the top or back?

I have only tried one canvas. It was an 8.5x11 sample from Canson. Fed nicely through the main paper path an printed beautifully.

As to fade resistance with the dye inks, reports vary and many internet reports are several years old. Unfortunately they often don't have dates so you don't know how current the information is. Technology with dye inks seems to be improving rapidly. Canon claims good fade resistance with their glossy and luster papers. They are not swellable polymer types (traditionally thought to be best for long term dye stability) but are nanoporus. Ilford claims their RC papers are as good as Canon's for stability. I think Canson also says their RC papers will last like Canon's. Most independent labs concentrate on pigment so there are not many current results. Reports that are 10 or even 5 years old are probably not reliable because of technological advances.

[aslowdodge]

I have only tried one canvas. It was an 8.5x11 sample from Canson. Fed nicely through the main paper path an printed beautifully.

As to fade resistance with the dye inks, reports vary and many internet reports are several years old. Unfortunately they often don't have dates so you don't know how current the information is. Technology with dye inks seems to be improving rapidly. Canon claims good fade resistance with their glossy and luster papers. They are not swellable polymer types (traditionally thought to be best for long term dye stability) but are nanoporus. Ilford claims their RC papers are as good as Canon's for stability. I think Canson also says their RC papers will last like Canon's. Most independent labs concentrate on pigment so there are not many current results. Reports that are 10 or even 5 years old are probably not reliable because of technological advances.

since I sell prints to people my concern is that in 10 years  many will call with complaints of fading. Am I better off just using a pro photo lab?

[rgs]

Do you like the way dye prints look more than pigment? I do. Do you prefer RC papers, rag papers, or canvas. Dye is best on RC. Pigment is generally better on rag. I don't know about permanence with canvas but I know the Canson canvas looks great with the PRO 100.

From what I've read, dye and pigment are both more permanent than wet color and I have even seen both compared favorably to dye transfer. One of my magazine covers, from1988, was framed and hung in my office. It was, by far, the worst fading I have ever seen from any color material. It's no longer on my wall.

I would either have them printed by a lab (they all offer pigment prints now) or tell your customers if the print fades, you will reprint for them. I think the deciding factor would be if you can get the look you want from a pigment print, have a lab do it and save yourself the trouble. But print some for yourself and just see what they do.

[Bob_B]

I've used a Pro100 for the last ten months, almost exclusively with Red River papers. My favorites: Pecos Gloss, Polar Pearl Metallic, and (for b/w) Aurora Natural and San Gabriel SemiGloss Fiber Baryta. I have not compared between paper brands. Overall, I'm happy with the Pro100.

Regarding ink usage: in my experience, printing consumes about 65% of the ink, while maintenance consumes the remainder. Since I do not print daily, by maintenance, I mean the printer's normal routine of cleaning ink heads after several days without use. This seems to happen every time I turn on my printer, which is about once or twice a week. (I plan to start turning it on daily, as part of my computer start-up routine, to see if this lowers ink consumption for maintenance.)

YMMV,

Bob

PS: Off topic for sure, but does anyone know of CD/DVD disk printing software for the Pro100? I've used the software bundled with the printer, but it is quite limited in what you can design.