Adobe has blinked!

[Rand47]

Those are the prices for the PS / Lightroom offer

Mike,

I'm a perpetual LR 5 owner, & Photoshop CC "only" subscriber @ $9.99 / mo. intro offer (and guess there are many like me).

Will we be seeing an offer to be rolled into the LR/PS CC bundle at the new pricing structure?

And thanks to you and Eric for the clarity. 

Rand

[madmanchan]

So that's the price for people who have photoshop CS3 or later. (I think it's good value and will be signing up)

MrSmith, my understanding is that the new pricing and bundle is intended by Adobe as a "thank you" to existing Photoshop customers. 

When the Ps CC subscription model was announced in June, one of the big pieces of initial negative feedback expressed here (and all across the photography community) was that it felt like a poke in the eye to long-time Photoshop users.  There was nothing in it for them for having purchased Photoshop previously, having upgraded throughout the years, and being a loyal customer.  This new pricing & bundle program for CS3--CS6 users is intended to address that.

[MikeChambers]

Mike,

I'm a perpetual LR 5 owner, & Photoshop CC "only" subscriber @ $9.99 / mo. intro offer (and guess there are many like me).

Will we be seeing an offer to be rolled into the LR/PS CC bundle at the new pricing structure?

And thanks to you and Eric for the clarity.  

Rand

Your plan will automatically be upgraded to the new offer.

i.e. you will get access to PS / Lightroom, and your price won't go up after the first year (like it will will the previous PS promo).

Hope that helps...

mike chambers

mesh@adobe.com

[madmanchan]

It is true that at present there is not a direct "exit strategy" -- i.e., you cannot use Photoshop CC to view Photoshop files (with all their smart object and adjustment layer glory, etc.) if your subscription ends.

On the other hand, in terms of being able to view and use your images, there is an indirect exit strategy:  Lightroom.  Lr is offered as a perpetual product, so it will continue to run should you choose to end your subscription.  Lr can also read and convert TIFFs and PSDs.  There are limits, of course: you can't directly edit the internals of the document, such as smart objects, adjustment layers, masks, etc.)  But you can still convert to other formats (e.g., export as a new TIFF), print them, etc.

[Rand47]

Mike,

Fabulous.  A perfect denouement to this drama.  
Congrats and props to Adobe for a very reasonable, cost effective, solution for us hobbyist, yet fine art leaning, photographer types.  

Rand

[Damon Lynch]

I'm a grad student in the U.S. I learned today that the price of CS6 design premium & production premium for students has almost doubled from $350 to $600! My university bookstore (located on a huge campus) has not sold a single CC subscription, but apparently they quickly sold out of some of the CS6 packages at the old prices.  The old price of $350 for a perpetual license is actually $10 cheaper than the annual CC subscription after the first year. Yes you get more apps with CC but how many students would use the extras? Unsurprisingly it seems many students are more interested in the perpetual license model. (Of course if a student did want the CC subscription, until mid December they'd be better off buying it directly from Adobe, so the "no sales of CC yet" might change once the higher pricing on the Adobe website kicks in.)

I understand Adobe prefers its customers move to the subscription model. But I never guessed Adobe would force encourage them to do so by raising prices so aggressively on the old perpetual version. Yikes. Personally I suspect at $600 a pop many students will simply pirate it, which is a sad state of affairs for everyone. I already own Photoshops CS6 and Lightroom. In my case I'm not at all keen on spending $360 per year (after the first year) for the 3 applications I'd actually use (Photoshop, Lightroom, Audition).  At $120 per year I'll consider CC for Photoshop and Lightroom, and try to figure out something else for editing audio--maybe something from another company.

Anyway, thanks Eric for advocating for us photographers. It's appreciated!!

[l_d_allan]

Except they've already committed that LR will continue to be available on a perpetual licence model.

I think the wording was more like, "There are no plans at the current time for LR to be subscription only."

Rather than a commitment, I read that as "wait and see", and I'm fine with that. YMMV.

[DougJ]

I'm in the same position as Rand47, so a +1 for Mike Chambers' clarification.

In addition, an atta boy to madmanchan for chiming in and to Mike for coming out of lurking--Oh BTW, Mike, since you've lurked in here for some time (as indeed I have), you must have noticed that a lot of folks play rough in here .

Ciao,

Doug

[Steve Weldon]

It's obvious (or should be) that Adobe desperately needs new subscribers to keep their subscriber model viable, so they come up with a reasonably priced entry level package apparently geared towards photographers.  Photographers are not an insignificant number of CS/CC users.

So, the five dollar foot long.. oh sorry, PS/LR for $9.98 deal comes along and I suppose what I'm getting at is how long is Adobe willing to stay at this price for those who subscribe during their promotion period?

Ideally (for Adobe) everyone sees $9.99 and forgets about their objections to the subscriber model.. because now the price benefits them.  After these subscribers get used to this model, the convenience of the cloud features, etc.. the price will rise.. say $15.99. 

How does it look now?  Faced with the decision of paying $15.99 (and maybe 21.99 six months later, after all the market dictates price) and a no hassle business as usual.. or the dreaded decisions of what to replace CC with, the expense, etc.. Even if they think the price is too high.. they're trapped.  Stuck like glue..

To a studio pulling in 100k a year or more I suppose Adobe's software price is reasonable.  But what about the 15k a year part timer or 25k a year full timer trying to build.. or the advanced amateur who just wants to use the industry standard and not let his/her skills perish by using ScoobyDoo Photo Play?  (this makes me wish for alternative pricing strategies like a "per save" charge.. Same deal, Cloud, Subscription, new updates, but you pay 25 cents for each file you save for the first 100 files that year and 10 cents a file after that for the next 500..)

Demented or not, these are the thoughts running through my head as the sheep get in line to sign up.  What can you tell a guy with my concerns about how long the $9.99 subscriptions will stick around? Before I press the button I really want to know.

Thank you

Steve

[Simon Garrett]

Personally, I think you should welcome Mike and not question his motives...

Don't be silly!  You should always question people's motives.  You should question mine, although you probably have no reason to think I'm other than a user in this context.  But Mike isn't just a user, and as user he has a conflict of interest.  That's not saying he's dishonest, but let's have no more of this "don't question motives". 

[Rhossydd]

Hum...I guess you missed Mike's post where he said:.............

No, I saw it.
Long time lurker eh ? "Date Registered:    04-09-2013, 18:34:02"

Just happens to register when a major new fire fighting announcement is made by his employers.

and you expect me not to be cynical ?

[Simon Garrett]

It's not a terribly good deal for me. 

I've just paid £182 to upgrade to CS6, and I've upgraded to LR5.  If I sign up now, I've wasted the money I've paid (£240).  Can I get a refund?  I think I can guess the answer, but Eric's "this is a thank-you to customers" rings a bit hollow to me.

Logically I wouldn't join a subscription until we get LR6, or until we get significant further upgrades to Photoshop - but I have to sign up now (this year), and never miss a payment. 

And if I ever leave CC, is my licence to CS6 still valid, or do I sign that away when I join CC?

Thing is, with Photoshop we're reaching diminishing returns - fewer real new features of value to users with each release.  We're getting to the stage when (IMHO) a total new product is needed, not an upgrade.  Obviously this is why Adobe are so desparate to move to rental.  I'm sure Eric is reporting accurately that Adobe has no intention of going back to perpetual licence for Photoshop, but ultimately the decision will be made by the market, not by Adobe (unless they're completely bonkers). 

I don't think I'll be taking up this offer unless:

• It's still open in a year or so, when it would make sense to me
• Or Adobe cares to refund the £240 I've just spend on upgrades

I don't like the feeling of being blackmailed.  I know it's not actual blackmail, but I don't like being strong-armed in a direction I don't want to go. 

[jjj]

It's not a terribly good deal for me.  

I've just paid £182 to upgrade to CS6, and I've upgraded to LR5.  If I sign up now, I've wasted the money I've paid (£240).  Can I get a refund?  I think I can guess the answer, but Eric's "this is a thank-you to customers" rings a bit hollow to me.

I'm guessing quite a few people will love the new price, but also a lot of people who are probably being specifically targeted by this offer may have done what you did and recently bought CS6/LR5 and are probably not inclined to also subscribe to CC in the next few months. Even though it is a much more attractive deal than before.
I got the impression from the presentation that the new price was the new price, not just another time limited offer. Because in the next year or so when CS6/LR5 users are actually thinking about upgrading, the price will be at the old sticking point which seemed rather unpopular. Which is exactly your position.

Logically I wouldn't join a subscription until we get LR6, or until we get significant further upgrades to Photoshop - but I have to sign up now (this year), and never miss a payment.

 Which means you're effectively paying twice.

I don't think I'll be taking up this offer unless:

• It's still open in a year or so, when it would make sense to me
• Or Adobe cares to refund the £240 I've just spend on upgrades

I don't like the feeling of being blackmailed.  I know it's not actual blackmail, but I don't like being strong-armed in a direction I don't want to go.  

Which continues the issue from when CC only was announced.

And if I ever leave CC, is my licence to CS6 still valid, or do I sign that away when I join CC?

A perpetual licence is just that, forever and is nothing to do with CC.

[Simon Garrett]

"And if I ever leave CC, is my licence to CS6 still valid, or do I sign that away when I join CC?"

A perpetual licence is just that, forever and is nothing to do with CC.

The reason I asked is that when you upgraded Photoshop (perpetual licence) or Lightroom, I seem to recall that the licence for the new product replaced the licence to the older, upgraded product.  I had the feeling that you weren't getting a new licence. 

Hence the fear that if you go CC on the reduced price for existing licensees, they might replace (i.e. cancel) the perpetual licence, so if you leave CC you can no longer activate the perpetual licence product. 

Again, this is something to which I'd need an answer in writing from Adobe. 

[jjj]

I have had times when I had two versions of CS on my computer, licensing one had no effect on the other. They both still worked.
I'm pretty sure you couldn't then sell the old version as full upgradeable which may be what you are thinking about.

[Manoli]

I have had times when I had two versions of CS on my computer, licensing one had no effect on the other. They both still worked.

Yes, BUT you probably had the 'old' version installed prior to the newer, upgraded version.

The question is really about whether or not re-installing CS6 AFTER an upgrade to CC would be validated by Adobe. From my reading of this issue, there is not as yet a clear, unambiguous answer as to whether this is a new product and the old licence is still valid or whether cross-grading deletes/replaces your old licence.

The same holds true for LR.

--

ps - e.g.  Upgrading a copy of C1 did NOT then allow me to reinstall an older version afterwards.

[Morris Taub]

Even though it is a much more attractive deal than before.

I really don't feel it's such a great deal. The only thing that's changed,...the guarantee that the intro price would go from 10 to 20 dollars a month. Now it might and it might not. I don't trust adobe to keep prices low to make its customers happy, do you?

[jjj]

I really don't feel it's such a great deal. The only thing that's changed,...the guarantee that the intro price would go from 10 to 20 dollars a month. Now it might and it might not. I don't trust adobe to keep prices low to make its customers happy, do you?

I'm pretty sure Adobe said the price as announced was not an introductory price that'll go up in a year's time like the other offers.

Also worth bearing in mind that the UK pricing is the same as US pricing, for the first time I can ever recall.

[jrp]

I'm pretty sure Adobe said the price as announced was not an introductory price that'll go up in a year's time like the other offers.

Taken at face value, it will not go up for CC, but what happens when they decide to introduce CC2 or CCC or whatever?

[jjj]

Taken at face value, it will not go up for CC, but what happens when they decide to introduce CC2 or CCC or whatever?

The issue there is the concept of versions has gone with CC, so to then do CC2/CCC would upset even more people.