Lenses for a Phase One 645 DF+ Camera Body

[andrewsk]

My second question

As I said in my previous post, I am close to pruchasing a refurbised IQ160 and 654DF+. It comes with the Schneider Kreuznach 80mm Leaf Shutter f2.8 AF.

I have been trying to research other lenses and I am hitting a wall with where to begin. New lenses hover around $5000+. When I hit EBAY, I see 645 compatable lenses for $500. Seems confusing. I must be missing something

Could some of you recommend some good AF lenses? Im happy with used but can do new if needed. Im looking to get something along the lines of the following:
35mm
55mm
80mm (Covered)
150mm
300mm

Any help is appreciated.

[Don Libby]

Andrew, I use 4 out of the 5 lenses on your list, 55, 80, 150 and 300mm.  While I've never had any issues with autofocus on any of these lenses I'd suggest you try them out before hand if you can.  EBay is one place however take a look at some of the dealers here as they should be able to help you out on used lenses as well as the after sales service.  Most (like Capture Integration) will rent a lens and take off the cost of rental should you buy it.

While my primary kit is a Cambo WRS I also use a DF along with a IQ160 and find it a good fit.

Don

[Doug Peterson]

You can find an excellent set of reviews by Jack Flesher here:
http://www.getdpi.com/forum/lens-accessory-reviews/15710-mamiya-lens-overview.html

Here is a quick summary of the major generations of lenses along with their common abbreviations:

• Manual Focus Mamiya lenses ("N",  "MF" or "Pro TL generation")
• Mamiya Autofocus Lenses ("AF" or "non D")
• Mamiya Digital Lenses ("D")
• Phase One Digital Lenses ("D")
• Schneider LS Lenses ("LS")

Note you can also use Hassy 200 and 500 series lenses and Pentax 67 and a few other lens varieties via adapter. You must control the aperture stop down manually in such cases, but gain autofocus confirmation.

I'd strongly (and selfishly) suggest you work with a knowledgable dealer that you trust to give you experienced and honest advice on these lenses. Personally I try to do as many of my own lens tests as possible and give straight forward feedback from them. See for instance our comparison of the Schneider 28LS and Phase One 28LS: https://digitaltransitions.com/blog/dt-blog/28mm-32mm-test where we show the 28D and 28LS perform very very similarly.

In many cases the difference between generations is startling. In other cases the difference is nearly non-existent. The latest-and-greatest Phase One 120mm Macro AF lens is not that much better than the was-already-excellent Mamiya 120mm MF non D. So if you don't need autofocus you can save a lot of money by going with the older lens in that case. There will be a bit more chromatic aberration and of course there won't be a manufacturer warranty but with this kind of lens there are very few things that can go wrong with it. Similarly if you don't need fast flash sync (which some people really need, and others will have no use for depending on what they shoot and their style of shooting) I'd suggest the 150D over the 150LS as the 150D is an amazingly good lens and is f/2.8 rather than f/3.2 (though it is a bit heavier).

On the opposite side you have lenses like the Schneider 110LS and 240LS which are just stunning and big improvements over the closest equivalents in the previous generations.

[Paul2660]

Here is a bit more feedback on the wides you listed, and info on the ebay stuff.

Yes, there are a lot of the older Mamiya non digital lenses out there, and sometimes you can find deals on the 150 F 2.8 (as Doug mentioned an excellent lens) and the 75-150 (which to me is as sharp as the 150 2.8 just not as open).  You have to make sure you are getting the AF versions of the lenses as there are a ton of the older MF lenses out there also. 

The 35mm Mamiya is a lens I used for almost 3 years extensively with my P45+.  I had the 28 Mamiya also, but it is not filter friendly and IMO not that sharp until dialed into around F14.  I can't speak to the newer LS version of the 28mm, however I tend to feel it's about the same as it has the same groupings of elements.  Also Digital Transitions did some very good tests with the 28 against one of the Rodenstock lenses, the 32mm and you can clearly see some differences. 

Back to the 35mm, I feel on a 160 class camera, you will not be very happy.  This lens is pretty soft until around F11 in the corners and suffers from diffraction softness much past F16.  Not a very good range.  I believe that Phase One now makes it in a "D" version, but it has the same element groupings, so I would not expect much better.  The 35mm is equivalent to around a 24mm lens (35mm camera) so it's pretty wide and it's not too heavy.  The AF is pretty solid.  It easily handles 2x 77mm filters without vignetting.  However it's just not that good in the corners.  There is some variance in manufacturing, as some of the versions tend to be better than others, but I tried 3 before I settled on the one I still have in my closet.  The 35mm will also tend to smear details in the corners from F 3.5 to around F8.  The 28mm I used did this also, but even worse. 

The 55mm is one of the sharpest lenses I ever used non-tech camera.  It's DOF is very very shallow and you will find yourself sometimes getting into trouble due to this especially on a vertical.  Color and contrast are a bit light but the lens when focused correctly will take an amazing shot. I have used the 55mm on a P45+, P65, IQ160, IQ180 and IQ260 and when used within it's focus range it's stellar.  You can find them on the web for a very low price point.  The newer 55 LS gets great reviews, however since I have never needed the Leaf shutter I have not used it.  For sure I would have not concerns about the 55mm Mamiya AF.

Lack of DOF on a wides, and overall lack of sharpness is why I moved to the Acra Rm3di with my IQ160.  Image quality is par none, however the tech camera solution does add quite a bit of hassle which so far I can justify due to the image quality.  The ability to use tilt on focal lengths of 28mm, 35mm, 40mm and 60mm to me is invaluable. 

300mm for me is way to heavy, has no optical stabilization and is equivalent to a 200mm on a 35mm camera, just not enough for me.   It's a heavy lens, and for this style of shooting I tend to fall back to 35mm.  You can find the older MF versions on the web all the time. 

Congratulations on the new camera and back.

Paul Caldwell

[andrewsk]

Wow, this is great information. Thank you all very much. Ill take some time to digest...

[awphoto]

What sort of subjects do you primarily shoot?

[andrewsk]

I live about 45 min from Banff National Park in Canada so its kind of a combo of Traditional Landscape, Wildlife in its environment and some still life stuff.

I try to go to Africa every couple of years but I don't expect the Phase to do much heavy lifting there. For that I would bring a Canon.

Thanks

[Paul2660]

What a great location, I do envy you. 

You should check out Andy Biggs work.  He shoots a lot of African trips (I believe he lives there also) and has been a PODAS instructor.  He uses the IQ160 in his work, not sure what lenses. 

Paul Caldwell

[andrewsk]

LOL! I am good friends with Andy. He is a great guy. I always travel with him if I go.

He did offer to let me try out his Phase on the next trip. Im just not sure when that is

Keith