Syrian crisis - what should be done?

[Chris_Brown]

An Irishman, an Englishman and a Welshman are in a pub. The Irishman says: where’s the Scotsman?

An Irishman, an Englishman and a Welshman are in a pub. The Englishman says: where’s the Scotsman?

An Irishman, an Englishman and a Welshman are in a pub. The Welshman says: maybe you’ve heard this one before?

A Scotsman walks into an empty pub. He says: thank fuck it’s busy tonight.

I don't really get this joke, and I still laughed aloud. Now I want to go to Scotland.

[Chris_Brown]

I really hope they sort out Fukushima.

Where, do you suppose, does the Fukushima disaster fit into this chart?

[Rob C]

I don't really get this joke, and I still laughed aloud. Now I want to go to Scotland.

My mother never really understood me either.

But then she was half-Italian. I think I undestood both of her.

;-)

Rob C

[Vladimirovich]

Even if it was what.. 60 odd years ago? 

nice position, huh... the problem is that memory on the receiving end is not limited to 60 years...

[Vladimirovich]

A cluster bomb (which are also illegal under the Convention on Cluster Munitions - but that has only 108 signatories at the moment) kills through its explosive properties and the explosive over pressures are very predictable and fall-off according to the inverse square law. Once the weapon is dropped, it's effects are virtually pre-determined and predictable.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Area_Denial_Artillery_Munition

[Peter Stacey]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Area_Denial_Artillery_Munition

In the wonderful world of armaments there are always exceptions to the general principles. Unfortunately that isn't an uncommon type of submunition (and not an exception). Mines, bomblets, chemical - a whole host of submunitions have been used over the years. All of them are appalling and all of them thankfully not related to the topic of the thread, which is opinions on what should be done about the current Syrian situation.

I'm happy to discuss munitions all day long, but perhaps in a different thread.

[Steve Weldon]

nice position, huh... the problem is that memory on the receiving end is not limited to 60 years...

This is just too rich.. I must resist.. resist..

[Steve Weldon]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Area_Denial_Artillery_Munition

Unfortunately the spec sheets often don't carry the failure rates.. only what is 'intended' to happen.

[Steve Weldon]

In the wonderful world of armaments there are always exceptions to the general principles. Unfortunately that isn't an uncommon type of submunition (and not an exception). Mines, bomblets, chemical - a whole host of submunitions have been used over the years. All of them are appalling and all of them thankfully not related to the topic of the thread, which is opinions on what should be done about the current Syrian situation.

I'm happy to discuss munitions all day long, but perhaps in a different thread.

Sometimes it's the simple stuff.. Like napalm or its variants.  I'm thinking of what we did in Japan.  Possibly the worst we've ever done.  I'm really glad the days of attacking civilian populations are over, bombs are smarter, etc.  Or that drones make target ID more possible.   

[Peter Stacey]

Sometimes it's the simple stuff.. Like napalm or its variants.  I'm thinking of what we did in Japan.  Possibly the worst we've ever done.  I'm really glad the days of attacking civilian populations are over, bombs are smarter, etc.  Or that drones make target ID more possible.   

If only hey.

But aside from things being no better now than in the past, what would you do about the current Syrian issue and why?

[BernardLanguillier]

What has been lacking for this appalling gas attack has been motive. Here are two opinions pointing to the same origin:
First
Second
Not saying they are right, just that I haven't seen any alternative yet.
In the meantime, from the purely selfish viewpoint of a Pacific dweller, I really hope they sort out Fukushima.

Now that makes a lot more sense!

Cheers,
Bernard

[Steve Weldon]

If only hey.

But aside from things being no better now than in the past, what would you do about the current Syrian issue and why?

I answered that question in the beginning of the thread.  Since it wasn't a traditional answer it was made fun of.  I don't think killing people and breaking things will be helpful.  Either will doing nothing.  But I do think killing the people who ordered the chem strike and if we continue to do so.. would put every would be asshat on notice to buy a hat.  You know, the Israeli model. 

[Peter Stacey]

I answered that question in the beginning of the thread.  Since it wasn't a traditional answer it was made fun of.  I don't think killing people and breaking things will be helpful.  Either will doing nothing.  But I do think killing the people who ordered the chem strike and if we continue to do so.. would put every would be asshat on notice to buy a hat.  You know, the Israeli model. 

I have the same position. Stop it happening again, but then let them sort the rest out themselves.

[Steve Weldon]

I have the same position. Stop it happening again, but then let them sort the rest out themselves.

Right.  Currently we target a few camps or missile sites, kill a few dozen helpless soldiers who are usually no more/less looking forward to a war than their US counterparts.. or maybe take out a leaders vacation home and blow up his luxury cars.   Or if we're really serious we'll target more civilians or some piece of infrastructure which will make the populace suffer.  But they didn't make the decision to gas their neighbour or extended family who lives in Rockostan City.. They die, but they were no more involved than you and me.  Who feels better about this?  It must stop.

If our intel network can say with confidence Assad's troops (for instance) had control over the stockpile the chem in question came from (and you know this usually can be done) then we target the leadership.. If we're just a little mad (the worse the atrocity, people killed, children, school, hospital, etc.. the more mad we become), target Assad.  If we're a lot mad target him and the generals in charge of the stockpile AND the general in charge of delivery.  Make it personal, make it appropriate, and make it now. 

We can even announce our policy.  Starting immediately from their violation we'll target them as they sleep, eat, travel, s s and s, but only them.  Starting two weeks after, we'll target them and anyone in their company when we find them.  Give them a chance to do the right thing and not hide behind skirts.  We could also give them a time period to turn themselves in for trial.. but then we'd need a judicial body that worked.  So that leaves out most of the UN.  Anyway, we make known our  policy, we stand behind it 100% of the time, and we put  these despots on notice there are consequences.  Each and every time.  We'll probably need to take out a few to make the point..  Do this and we do that.

Nothing works better than consistent, effective, and immediate consequence.

How would you handle this situation?

[Rocco Penny]

Quote:  "How would you handle this situation?"

Just like I have by withdrawing my support of DIFI and threatening the same for my congresswoman

Seems there has been a softening over the last few days huh?
Smarter than last time it seems,
but not out of the woods yet,
John Kerry is worse than I ever imagined.
Someone vote that guy into retirement would you?
http://www.theguardian.com/world/2013/sep/06/g20-syria-divides-putin-dinner

[mezzoduomo]

Maybe the US will finally get around to whatever-it-is-that-will-eventually-happen militarily.....and maybe Assad will live up to his word and throw a few missiles into Israel.

Katy bar the door.

[Slobodan Blagojevic]

...  killing the people who ordered the chem strike ...

Exactly! If only we could find someone with impecable moral authority and unquestionable track record to present the irrefutable evidence. Where is Colin Powell when you need him?

[Rocco Penny]

watch this for easy to understand reasons we should all be writing our elected leaders discouraging any involvement in Syria's civil war.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TqtCOxeGAHE

[Vladimirovich]

Unfortunately the spec sheets often don't carry the failure rates.. only what is 'intended' to happen.

zarin as we saw is not 100% lethal... regardless of whatever spec sheets - because you never know how much of it will actually get to the body, so terminal doze per kg or whatever is just a theory, in reality like with above mentioned munition you just do not know what happens

[Steve Weldon]

Exactly! If only we could find someone with impecable moral authority and unquestionable track record to present the irrefutable evidence. Where is Colin Powell when you need him?

I see your point.  But we can work with it.  It's like gun owners.  I've always believed (and Florida actually did it during my time there)we should require guys either be locked up in a state approved safe or in direct personal control of the owner (sleeping with it in their hand for instance).   We won't go in their homes or enforce these laws until such time a child or burglar or someone not the owner gets control of the weapon and either causes injury with it, or commits a crime.  Then the law allows the owner who failed to lock up their weapons.. to be charged with that crime.

We do the same with the current head of state and military general assigned to that billet. 

In Florida there were massive amounts of guns being turned in and showing up in buyback programs.  Funny thing, many people decided they didn't want to own guns any longer.   And as a strong 2nd amendment supporter I was  happy to see the people not willing to safeguard their weapons or suffer the consequences get rid of them.

Do you think leaders of rogue countries might get rid of theirs if they see there is absolutely no chance the weapons can be used without a Hellfire coming through their bedroom window?