Basilica

[fike]

...
Mark, did you see my reply earlier? I can't see any difference and would like to be able to see what you were getting at.

the sample I posted had a very gentle application of unsharp mask with a very large diameter (something like 25 pixels) and a very low percentage (around 8%).  I can see s small difference in apparent sharpness but at the expense of a bit of blocky contrast that was introduced.  It probably could be better with a high-resolution version of the image (I was, of course, working with your low-resolution web copy).  

I think the image is very nice and is worthy of processing that maximizes its goodness. I am not trying to make a garish fantasy as Slobo would have you believe. I assume you are trying to get the most out of your travel shots because you probably didn't have the luxury of sitting in this spot for 6-months to wait for perfect conditions.  You shot a good exposure with the weather and timing that god gave you.  Making the most of fit is no sin.  If you want to post a higher resolution version, I would be willing to try my idea on it.  

[David Eckels]

the sample I posted had a very gentle application of unsharp mask with a very large diameter (something like 25 pixels) and a very low percentage (around 8%).  I can see s small difference in apparent sharpness but at the expense of a bit of blocky contrast that was introduced.  It probably could be better with a high-resolution version of the image (I was, of course, working with your low-resolution web copy).  

I think the image is very nice and is worthy of processing that maximizes its goodness. I am not trying to make a garish fantasy as Slobo would have you believe. I assume you are trying to get the most out of your travel shots because you probably didn't have the luxury of sitting in this spot for 6-months to wait for perfect conditions.  You shot a good exposure with the weather and timing that god gave you.  Making the most of fit is no sin.  If you want to post a higher resolution version, I would be willing to try my idea on it.  

I will try what you suggest and see if I can see that difference. I also need to fix that mask issue Slobodan raised. No worries, I knew what you were trying to say and I think Slobodan was backhandedly acknowledging that I had avoided applying my usually heavy hand. A funny and informative exchange was had by all! If I can't see it, I would very much appreciate your willingness to look at a higher res image. Slobodan has done this for me before where I was able to "reverse engineer" his rendering and learn a bunch in the process. So much to learn. Sigh.

[Slobodan Blagojevic]

... the deficiencies in my mask How can I get that better? Over and over refining the edge in Refine Mask? Pixel by pixel touch up?...

I am not that much of an expert in PS masking, but from what I know, sometimes pixel by pixel seems to be the only way.

On the other hand, if you have to "fight" the mask (or any other tool), maybe you've gone too far? Perhaps the artifacts that start appearing are a blessing in disguise, telling you it's time to back off a bit? 

[David Eckels]

I am not that much of an expert in PS masking, but from what I know, sometimes pixel by pixel seems to be the only way.

On the other hand, if you have to "fight" the mask (or any other tool), maybe you've gone too far? Perhaps the artifacts that start appearing are a blessing in disguise, telling you it's time to back off a bit? 

You are a very tough Professor, Herr Blagojevic! A helpful admonition.

[David Eckels]

So re-did this using some luminosity masking thanks to the suggestion of Chris Callohan...not necessarily easy to apply, but brightness and contrast adjustments along with Highlights and Shadows was all that was required after a background duplication and Multiply blending. It's warmer for reasons I cannot divine at this time and perhaps a tad sharper. I'm going to stick with my original edit because after awhile I start seeing all kinds of different versions! Also, checked the original mask and that dark area pointed out by Slobodan is in the original DNG conversion (with no adjustments). This is shown in the OOC zoom. Thanks for all the comments. I realize that some of this has been very technical and really the aesthetics are of prime interest, but I am doing everything I can to become a craftsman, with your help of course!

[RSL]

David, I have this feeling that if you take the raw that came from your camera, adjust to make sure there's a bit of white clipping and a bit of black clipping, do a reasonable bit of sharpening, and quit screwing around with it, you'll have the best possible result. Everyone seems to get carried away with post-processing, but the processing that really matters is what takes place at the moment you trip the shutter. There's always a possibility that you'll need to make a small white balance adjustment, but in this picture that's a piece of cake. You have some heavy clouds in the picture. Heavy clouds are gray. A single click on the underside of a dark cloud with the middle gray dropper in ACR should take care of that. Instead of hovering over the computer, go out and shoot some more pictures. You're doing great.

[David Eckels]

...but then I wouldn't be a craftsman Thanks for the encouragement, Russ.

[RSL]

Come on, David. The art and the craft is in deciding what to include and what to leave out. All the rest is simple-minded grunt work.

[David Eckels]

Come on, David. The art and the craft is in deciding what to include and what to leave out. All the rest is simple-minded grunt work.

+2

[fike]

Come on, David. The art and the craft is in deciding what to include and what to leave out. All the rest is simple-minded grunt work.

How many times will you repeat your matra?  Remember, "there are many paths to enlightenment."

[fike]

So re-did this using some luminosity masking thanks to the suggestion of Chris Callohan...not necessarily easy to apply, but brightness and contrast adjustments along with Highlights and Shadows was all that was required after a background duplication and Multiply blending. It's warmer for reasons I cannot divine at this time and perhaps a tad sharper. I'm going to stick with my original edit because after awhile I start seeing all kinds of different versions! Also, checked the original mask and that dark area pointed out by Slobodan is in the original DNG conversion (with no adjustments). This is shown in the OOC zoom. Thanks for all the comments. I realize that some of this has been very technical and really the aesthetics are of prime interest, but I am doing everything I can to become a craftsman, with your help of course!

What did you do in that enlarged dome crop? (Sorry Russ, I didn't mean to use that word;-))   The zoomed CROP looks sharp. There is more sharpness in the image, but I think you processed it out in your final copy.  What technique did you use for web publishing the image.  The down-rez can sometimes make things look soft.


That final version you show is indeed over-processed. 

[RSL]

How many times will you repeat your matra?  Remember, "there are many paths to enlightenment."

Ah yes. . . But in photography, only one.

[Rob C]

Ah yes. . . But in photography, only one.

Now I'm blushing!

Okay, sorry; just couldn't resist a feed like that. It's funny, but sometimes, sitting here and wondering who the hell everyone else might really be, I do get this sense of reckless abandon creep over me...

;-)

Rob C

[fike]

... I do get this sense of reckless abandon creep over me...

;-)

Rob C

resist it.

[RSL]

It's okay, Rob. Let go and do something completely crazy. Like suggesting Isaac post a picture.

[David Eckels]

What did you do in that enlarged dome crop? (Sorry Russ, I didn't mean to use that word;-))   The zoomed CROP looks sharp. There is more sharpness in the image, but I think you processed it out in your final copy.  What technique did you use for web publishing the image.  The down-rez can sometimes make things look soft.


That final version you show is indeed over-processed. 

The enlarged dome crop is OOC, no adjustments, just the NEF converted "straight" to DNG, no presets applied other than LR defaults. For the OP image, a USM was applied to finish the PSD, after masked adjustments, and from LR, the PSD was exported to the hard drive jpeg with "Standard" sharpening applied. I agree that the latest version (in the post with the cropped dome) is over done.

[Slobodan Blagojevic]

... Also, checked the original mask and that dark area pointed out by Slobodan is in the original DNG conversion (with no adjustments). This is shown in the OOC zoom...

It's been documented that certain RAW converters and certain cameras occasionally have a bug that results in black halos around high-contrast edges. Would be interesting to see if opening it in another RAW converter would show the same.

[David Eckels]

It's been documented that certain RAW converters and certain cameras occasionally have a bug that results in black halos around high-contrast edges. Would be interesting to see if opening it in another RAW converter would show the same.

Like ViewNX-2? Another? My take was that there were lots of tiny ridges that converge as the dome "goes round the corner." I'll see if ViewNX-2 makes a difference. I'll bet not.

[Slobodan Blagojevic]

For example, I remember Canon 5D2 had issues with black halos around bright spots. Also, see Adobe below: