XXL Printing - is there anything 72" wide or bigger for pigment ink prints?

[narikin]

Does anyone know of a printer (machine or company) that can make a pigment ink print in a roll width of at least 72" width, or larger?

I know Epson tops out at 64" and Canon/HP at 60", but maybe there is someone who has taken one of those 3m/120" width Mimaki solvent printers and converted it to pigment?  or an 80" Mimaki/Roland?  (or am I all wrong about solvent inks, and they are much more durable than you would think?) Am also aware of the Lightjet 500XL, and its c-print capability of 72" width (x120" max length) but would much rather it was a pigment print.

Want the print to be on paper or smooth media, not canvas/fabric with a noticeable weave.  *Must be single piece - no seams or joins! 

[pixeldoppelganger]

I'm still searching for this holy grail   

[Czornyj]

I don't think there's inkjet photo paper that wide. I'd print it directly on PVC, glass or acrylic with UV printer.

[peegeenyc]

Innova makes their IFA14 in 72" width, so Yes there is paper.  Sadly companies that do make XL machines, like Mimaki, who make them even 3m or more, do not offer those models with pigment heads.

All the effort seems to be directed to solvent printers at the moment, sadly for us.

[Scott Martin]

Does anyone know of a printer (machine or company) that can make a pigment ink print in a roll width of at least 72" width, or larger?

Just to clarify, I think you mean are there any 72" *aqueous* ink printers out there as pigments can be found in aqueous, solvent, latex and UV curable vehicles. But the answer is no. I'd looking into UV curable printing at 1000+dpi with at least an 8 color inkset like the Vutek GS5000r. I'm making a batch of prints on this printer as we speak...

[aaronchan]

Innova makes their IFA14 in 72" width, so Yes there is paper.  Sadly companies that do make XL machines, like Mimaki, who make them even 3m or more, do not offer those models with pigment heads.

All the effort seems to be directed to solvent printers at the moment, sadly for us.

Besides what Martin said, also the Mimaki or Roland are actually using the Epson piezo print head. Which means you can insert pigment aqueous ink into a third party cart and still use the machine with it. Technically, the Roland FJ series has a 2x 6 ink system, and you can modify it into a 12 ink system with a proper RIP.

aaron

[Scott Martin]

Besides what Martin said, also the Mimaki or Roland are actually using the Epson piezo print head. Which means you can insert pigment aqueous ink into a third party cart and still use the machine with it.

Sounds like a fun project! I like this spirit. But you'd still need high quality aqueous media at that width - for that you could place a special order for a master roll coated per your specs. Doable, but not cheap.

Is all of this really necessary? What kind of media are we talking about (RC, fiber base, canvas, etc)? Viewing distance, source file resolution, etc? Can we talk about what the ultimate goal is?

[aaronchan]

Sounds like a fun project! I like this spirit. But you'd still need high quality aqueous media at that width - for that you could place a special order for a master roll coated per your specs. Doable, but not cheap.

Is all of this really necessary? What kind of media are we talking about (RC, fiber base, canvas, etc)? Viewing distance, source file resolution, etc? Can we talk about what the ultimate goal is?

A lot of matte fine art paper does not require inkjet coating for print which still gets a very nice color from it. Yes you are right, it's hard to fine the media, maybe custom made or even hand made and yes it will be very expensive.

Back in the day when color services llc was doing color analog prints for met museum in the size of 72" x 120", not may people are capable to do color print in this size. Now for silver print, we have lambda which goes up to 72" as well, so why not a 72" wide printer with pigment ink which has a better longevity than silver print. The purpose? That's the question you should ask the artist, not the printmaker.

aaron

[Scott Martin]

A lot of matte fine art paper does not require inkjet coating for print which still gets a very nice color from it.

I think you are mistaken. Matte papers require an aqueous inkjet coating and get terrible "why bother" results without it.

Now for silver print, we have lambda which goes up to 72" as well

I'm not aware of any 72" wide Lambdas - can you elaborate? The 130 and 131 can make prints as *long* as 72" (and more) but they are only 50" *wide*.

...so why not a 72" wide printer with pigment ink which has a better longevity than silver print. The purpose? That's the question you should ask the artist, not the printmaker.

In this case I guess you could say I'm the artist and the printmaker, and I'm using a UV Curable printer for my 60"x120" prints for it's vastly superior lightfastness and durability relative to aqueous inkjet. :-]

Don't get me wrong, I love my 60" aqueous printer. But handling and framing cotton rag and fiber base papers at that size is a real pain, and it's hard to imagine wanting to go much larger.

[aaronchan]

I think you are mistaken. Matte papers require an aqueous inkjet coating and get terrible "why bother" results without it.

I'm not aware of any 72" wide Lambdas - can you elaborate? The 130 and 131 can make prints as *long* as 72" (and more) but they are only 50" *wide*.

In this case I guess you could say I'm the artist and the printmaker, and I'm using a UV Curable printer for my 60"x120" prints for it's vastly superior lightfastness and durability relative to aqueous inkjet. :-]

Don't get me wrong, I love my 60" aqueous printer. But handling and framing cotton rag and fiber base papers at that size is a real pain, and it's hard to imagine wanting to go much larger.

1. Sorry about that, the way of defining nice color is very subjective. But I've done a lot of non-coated water color paper for my clients and they liked it so much.

2. Sorry again, my mistakes, it should be the lightjet 500xl.

3. How much is a UV-printer that could print up to 72" wide? Plus the cost of the maintenance. I work as a printer like you do in Asia, mostly for fine artist. It is not a really good profit business in here. I actually know the Oce distributor here and I've used it before for some fun work such as printing images on iphone case, but I just won't ask him to rent his printer for fine art work printing. He makes much more printing jobs while I might have to re-tune the printer for just a few fine art prints. Aqueous printer is just a lot cheaper to operate in this market field so far with my working experience.

4. Mounting and framing with professional is not an issue in here.

Having the advantage of using the best equipment in the world is a gift, but for those of us who does not have this opportunity, we will just have to find a way to reach as close as possible of what we want. demand and supply, never changes

aaron

[Scott Martin]

Check out UV curable then just for your own knowledge. While the printers are big and expensive, the ink and consumables are dramatically less expensive than aqueous and the results longer lasting. There's a reason why aqueous doesn't go larger than 64"... I'd still like to hear from narikin as to the bigger picture of his inquiry.

[aaronchan]

I have a suggestion to narikin, you can email to american inkjet system who sales very good ink for a lot of printers worldwide, he might have an answer for you who has a 72" printer setup with their ink set

good luck

aaron

[peegeenyc]

Check out UV curable then just for your own knowledge. While the printers are big and expensive, the ink and consumables are dramatically less expensive than aqueous and the results longer lasting. There's a reason why aqueous doesn't go larger than 64"... I'd still like to hear from narikin as to the bigger picture of his inquiry.

Thanks all. Odd how this thread lay dormant for weeks, then sprang to life.

Why bigger? Fine art. I do all sorts of sizes, but sometimes you want bigger than 60/64"width. Simple! Framing is not a problem pro framing houses. They're used to these sorts of requests.

Yes I know, and have used a 500XL, which is why really it would be best to get up to an 80" or 96" width, to make it worth the hassle over just taking the route of making a digital C on the Lightjet.

If anyone has or knows of a real working printer/company who can do this on good materials, then please do PM me.

Scott.. I'm ignorant of other inksets beside aqeous pigment. Which ones rival UltraChrome/K3 for longevity in the solvent/UV curable area- ditto for media.

Thanks.

[Scott Martin]

Scott.. I'm ignorant of other inksets beside aqeous pigment. Which ones rival UltraChrome/K3 for longevity in the solvent/UV curable area- ditto for media.

Generally speaking, the UV curable inksets are king for lightfastness and durability. They dramatically exceed aqueous, especially when combined with UV curable liquid lamination. UV inks are about 1/8th the cost of aqueous inks per volume so once can see why XXL pros gravitate towards them. And there are too many high quality media options to mention here.

It seems the silver gelatin mindset from decades ago has been replaced by an aqueous inkjet focused mindset today. There's really a lot of other exciting options out there for those willing to explore, and neat technologies on the horizon.

[Ernst Dinkla]

There are Mimaki models for textile printing that are wider. If loaded with textile pigment ink I  think it could do a good job on paper too. Preferably a model that has an 8 ink configuration and not the 2x4 ink one. The textile inks can be reactive dye, sublimation dye or pigment.

--
Met vriendelijke groet, Ernst

http://www.pigment-print.com/spectralplots/spectrumviz_1.htm
July 2013, 500+ inkjet media white spectral plots.

[Scott Martin]

Feels like we're reaching into the realm on theories and maybes. Has anyone here have actual hans-on experience printing on paper with a Mimachi using aqueous pigmented inks? I've printed on paper with Mimachi's with solvent inks and I'd say it's not the pinnacle of technology. I'd guess the chances that the Mimachi looks as good as a Epson, Canon or HP aqueous are close to zero. An XXL shootout between this, a latex and a UV curable printer would be interesting though.

[startkapital]

I wont make sense to me reverting a solvent 3meter wide printer into a pigment based printer.

Mimaki and other brand most time only print with 4 inks CYMK that is the printer themself have up to FOUR Epson printhead each printhead firing  1440 nozzles this makes an impressive m² per Hour coverage.

since where talking about BIG print it wont make any sense to print with 9 or even 11 HDR Epson inks or compatible since the viewing distance to gasp such a print must be like 3 meter form distance or even more. with an adequate RIP and color profiling solution I guess it wont make a differnece that much. but cleary with CYMK only the gamut wouldnt be the same compared to a 11 type inkset.

[Scott Martin]

Mimaki and other brand most time only print with 4 inks CYMK that is the printer themself have up to FOUR Epson printhead each printhead firing  1440 nozzles this makes an impressive m² per Hour coverage. Since where talking about BIG print it wont make any sense to print with 9 or even 11 HDR Epson inks or compatible since the viewing distance to gasp such a print must be like 3 meter form distance or even more. with an adequate RIP and color profiling solution I guess it wont make a differnece that much. but cleary with CYMK only the gamut wouldnt be the same compared to a 11 type inkset.

Sure, a lot of these printers are geared for speed instead of quality. But some of them have 8-10 inks for quality and it's those that are of interest to the group here. Those extra inks do make a difference - particularly in terms of smoothness, fine detail, highlights without dots and neutral B&W images. The extra inks don't do much to expand gamut - really good primary colors are needed for that and both solvent and UV Curable inksets have improved a lot in the past 2 years in this respect. Epson's Surecolor S70 and Vutek's GS5000r with the 8 color inkset and the Roland xr640 with it's interchangeable inkset configurations are 3 notable models to watch.

[narikin]

since where talking about BIG print it wont make any sense to print with 9 or even 11 HDR Epson inks or compatible since the viewing distance to gasp such a print must be like 3 meter form distance or even more. with an adequate RIP and color profiling solution I guess it wont make a differnece that much. but cleary with CYMK only the gamut wouldnt be the same compared to a 11 type inkset.

The 'viewing distance' argument has never held up in fine art use.  Every single time you see an XL print in a gallery you'll see people walking up close to it and inspect for detail. It has to hold up to close inspection, and therefore be printed at decent resolution.  

Scott- thanks for tips on specific machines, I'll look into them, though 2 of them are just 64" machines, so thats of no gain whatsoever over an 11880, and the Vutek is OTT in the other direction.

[Scott Martin]

The 'viewing distance' argument has never held up in fine art use.  Every single time you see an XL print in a gallery you'll see people walking up close to it and inspect for detail. It has to hold up to close inspection, and therefore be printed at decent resolution.  

I agree!

... the Vutek is OTT in the other direction.

OTT - had to look that up. Yes, well over 64" in general is pretty OTT isn't it? I'm working on a Vutek again today - love it!