Do you use mirror lockup?

Always and for all shots

22 (25.6%)

Long exposure and macros with tripod

28 (32.6%)

Once in a while

22 (25.6%)

Never

5 (5.8%)

Other (explain)

9 (10.5%)

Total Members Voted: 83

[DeanChriss]

I shoot 100% from a tripod and use MLU 100% for landscapes. For most wildlife I use a full gimbal head and of course no MLU.

[Glenn NK]

There is a tutorial on LL:

http://www.luminous-landscape.com/tutorials/understanding-series/mirror-lock.shtml

that describes a small test - putting a small container of water on the hot shoe.

I tried it a couple of weeks ago - with some surprises.

I set my tripod up on the living room floor (standard nominal 2 x 10 joists with 3/4" sheathing and 1 1/2" concrete topping) with a 100 macro and a dish of water on top of the hot shoe.  I used a remote/cable shutter release, and set the exposure time to ten seconds.

1) the mirror-up slap was very obvious - ripples immediately,

2) when the ripples stopped (this took just over one second), I pressed the remote button again to open the shutter,

3) surprisingly from the shutter opening, there were more ripples, although noticeably less than from the mirror slap.

4) at the end of the 10 second exposure, the shutter closed resulting in more ripples - this of course has no effect on the image.

5) what I did notice that bothered me was that I had to keep the cord attached to the camera perfectly still or the very small force from the moving release cable would cause ripples.

Glenn

[Colorado David]

Here's a question for the debaters; how much effect does mirror slap actually have on the image and at what shutter speeds?  If you have a long exposure, say thirty seconds, the length of time that mirror slap happens is insignificant.  How about the other end of the spectrum, a fast shutter speed has little impact from the mirror.  So where is the magic range where it is significant?

Don't attack me for being a heathen.  I'm just  asking a question.

[Misirlou]

As I remember from an article in Photo Techniques from about 15 years ago, it varied by camera, but was typically the worst at about 1/30th of a second.

[Colorado David]

I believe it would also vary with focal length, but in a general sense probably anything slower than a 1/60 and up to 1 or 2 seconds the vibration could degrade the image.  Don't get me wrong, I believe in doing everything possible to insure a quality capture, and I will probably continue to lock up the mirror every time it's practical to do so.

[Glenn NK]

Here's a question for the debaters; how much effect does mirror slap actually have on the image and at what shutter speeds?  If you have a long exposure, say thirty seconds, the length of time that mirror slap happens is insignificant.  How about the other end of the spectrum, a fast shutter speed has little impact from the mirror.  So where is the magic range where it is significant?

Don't attack me for being a heathen.  I'm just  asking a question.

Good question - while doing the test noted previously (with the dish of water on the hot shoe), it became apparent that the results couldn't be quantized.

Further to what I wrote, I also tried the same "test" with a 70-200 f/2.8 lens - much less vibration.  As more mass, particularly if the mass is spread out over a longer distance, it will dampen vibrations.

But the question remains - how much is OK, and how much is too much?   I don't know, but I'd like to eliminate it if possible (I'm not counting on being able to eliminate all vibrations).

Wildlife shooters that use crop bodies have a bit of an advantage as the mirror is smaller and lighter which produces smaller vibrations.

Glenn

[Wayne Fox]

Good article, instead of water you could use the iSeisometer app which would let you compare the amount of the vibrations.  I tried this comparing a Canon camera using Live View vs Mirror lockup. Using Liveview instead of mirror lockup indeed shows a slight advantage (although both are substantially better and acceptable vs normal).

[Glenn NK]

When the camera is mounted on a tripod, I always use MLU.

I often use ML even when not on a tripod (because I forgot to change it back).  

Glenn

EDIT:  Wayne:  I use ML on my 30D (no LV), and LV on my 5DII.

[Torbjörn Tapani]

I will use exposure delay more often than not or liveview. But I will rarely use MLU. I find it more convenient to use the delay that works without draining batteries from liveview and works well with intervalometer and continuous drive, say for brackets and stacking shots.

[jejv]

Not completely, at least not for me. LV is great for all the things you mention. But, it burns battery power, and leaving it on for extended periods will heat up the sensor, adding shadow noise. And unless you use a remote shutter release or trigger the shutter via the timer, pushing the shutter button will cause some small amount of camera shake, regardless of where the mirror might be. Perhaps you don't often shoot in the desert, or do long sequences of exposures. I've learned the hard way to be judicious about LV in those circumstances.

So, I still need MLU quite a lot, and it's annoying not to have a dedicated control. My first Canon film camera, which I bought in 1981, had a nice mechanical MLU switch. You kind of get used to a thing like that over a couple of decades. Not having one on a DSLR, where the simplest of buttons could trigger the function, is pretty exasperating.

There was an article in Photo Techniques in the late '90s where someone tested several different kinds of cameras at a whole range of shutter speeds. It turned out that MLU made a big difference up to surprisingly fast shutter openings for some camera/lens combos. It wasn't even very predictable; some inexpensive cameras had mirrors that induced a small amount of vibration, while a few expensive pro models were terrible. I remember my Hasselblads being pretty bad, which is one of the reasons I tended to use Rolleis in the field instead.

Yeah.

MLU on a tripod with a static point of focus - as mentioned, sometimes static point of focus is desirable even with a moving subject.

Maybe I missed it, but I don't think anyone mentioned eyepiece blanking plates with MLU/live view, which should theoretically help contrast a bit, though I'm not sure I notice.

Static subject + tripod -> CD-AF, MLU, eyepiece blanking, cordless trigger or timer.
 

[PhotoEcosse]

Quite a bit of misconception evident earlier in this interesting thread.

MLU is useful within a fairly restricted range of parameters.

But, like using a remote release or delayed action, it really only becomes necessary or noticably beneficial in relatively few circumstances. Use a fast shutter speed (how I hate that incorrect terminology!!) of, say, over 1/500 second and the blur from mirror vibration will be insignificant. Equally, at long exposures - say over 5 seconds - the significance of the very brief duration of mirror vibration again becomes insignificant.

I will tend to use it if I require ultimate sharpness when using shuitter speeds of 1/60 - 1 second.

[ripgriffith]

no need with a Sony a99.

or with the a65

[ErikKaffehr]

Hi,

I always use MLU when it is appropriate.

Best regards
Erik

Quite a bit of misconception evident earlier in this interesting thread.

MLU is useful within a fairly restricted range of parameters.

But, like using a remote release or delayed action, it really only becomes necessary or noticably beneficial in relatively few circumstances. Use a fast shutter speed (how I hate that incorrect terminology!!) of, say, over 1/500 second and the blur from mirror vibration will be insignificant. Equally, at long exposures - say over 5 seconds - the significance of the very brief duration of mirror vibration again becomes insignificant.

I will tend to use it if I require ultimate sharpness when using shuitter speeds of 1/60 - 1 second.

[kers]

Yes, and I really, REALLY miss the simple mirror lock up as I have on the F3 Nikons. That is simple. This electronic wonderbox has me going into menus, pushing buttons and screwing around - doing most anything it seems to take my mind off the image I am trying to make....

sorry,i don't understand - on a d800 and the Nikons before it is a dial on top of the camera - even in total darkness you can use it - just turn it completely to the right. ( the other end is single exposure)

[kers]

Yep, indeed.
It is in fact mandatory. Some cameras would in fact probably end up being less sharp on a tripod without mirror lock up than handheld at reasonably fast shutter speeds.
Cheers,
Bernard

I agree, especially with the mirror 500mm. in the hand it has less trouble ( sharper) than on a tripod. In fact the sharpest pictures i get with a non mirror camera and electronic shutter ( like the Nikon V1- i have not tried the sony 7 but that must be the same) I am sure we will see a lot of those in the near future...

[muntanela]

With the Nikon D200 I always used MLU and cable release (and tripod), but I destroyed 3-4 MC30, now with the D800 I use only the exposure delay (and tripod). Two seconds seem to be enough, surely my wallet is grateful.

[LawrenceBraunstein]

Most all of my landscape work is done on a tripod, using LV and/or MLU (or Exposure Delay Mode on the Nikon D800E) for nearly every shot. I found it interesting what Wayne Fox said about sensor heating and the resulting thermal noise when using LV. I was under the impression the effects of additional sensor heat are more noticeable than his own tests have shown (I have to admit, I’ve never done my own testing). On the other hand, the time I tend to spend in LV usually constitutes more than just a few seconds (it’s more like minutes!). I use PC-E lenses quite a bit and finding the optimal amount of tilt combined with critical focusing at 100% magnification simply takes time. Because of this, I’ve gotten into the habit of first exiting LV and waiting several seconds before making the exposure. However, if Wayne’s tests are any indication, I’ve perhaps been unnecessarily complicating my workflow. It’s time to run some tests!

Larry

P.S. LV definitely consumes more battery power. I never shoot without two backup batteries in my bag.

[rhynetc]

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