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Author Topic: Problems with Hahnemuhle Bamboo  (Read 2665 times)

Malcolm Payne

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Problems with Hahnemuhle Bamboo
« on: August 21, 2013, 06:40:44 am »

I recently ordered in a roll of Hahnemuhle Bamboo for a new client - I hadn't used this before, my usual papers are from the Canson range.

From a batch of 15-off 10" x 10" images, 11 were subsequently rejected by the client for faint lighter bands some 3mm wide running across the full width of the print in the paper feed direction (so not head banding). Embarrassingly, I hadn't spotted the defects before the prints went out, but they are not obvious in the normal studio lighting and only in direct sunlight or very oblique lighting, and even then still very faint and hard to detect on some images. The other four prints from this batch, plus one other printed individually on a sheet offcut from the same roll, were 'perfect', according to the client.

The printer is a Canon iPF8300. As far as I can tell from test reprints on the Bamboo, the bands appear to occur at random intervals across the width of the paper roll, typically three bands on a 10" print, two somewhere around 75mm or so apart and a third some 20mm or so from the others. There may also be further bands on the same print, but they are so faint it is difficult to be certain. Neither the absolute nor the relative positions of the bands seem consistent from print to print, though I am still waiting for the reject prints back from the client to see if there is any pattern that correlates with the original print locations on the roll.

Again as far as I can tell, the bands on the test reprints do not align consistently with either the upper pressure roller locations nor the gaps between them, which was my first thought for a potential cause, nor do they resemble typical pressure marks.

I have reprinted the same test images with identical settings on a similar weight paper (Canson Velin, 315gsm), which shows no evidence of similar banding or other marks.

I have also run a further test on the Bamboo with alternative vacuum settings, and these prints show the same bands as previously.

There was also a second, unrelated defect in the margin of one of the test reprints from the centre of the roll, in the form of a jagged crease around 35mm long, which does make me wonder about Hahnemuhle's quality control.

Has anyone seen anything like this with the Bamboo paper, or has any ideas as to a potential cause? The defective samples have gone off to the paper supplier and thence to the mill for comment, but it's likely to be a little while before I have any answers. As it's the first roll of the Bamboo that I've used, I can't say whether it's a defect in this particular roll/production run - my current suspicion - or a 'feature' of the media type as a whole. In either case, the client is adamant that the prints are not acceptable in this condition, which is fair enough.

If someone would kindly tell me how I can post an image here, I'll see if I can upload a pic showing the defect when I get the reject prints back from the client. Meanwhile, any thoughts or suggestions would be very welcome.

Many thanks to all.

Malcolm
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John Caldwell

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Re: Problems with Hahnemuhle Bamboo
« Reply #1 on: August 21, 2013, 02:31:05 pm »

If you Edit your post, you should see an Attach File radio button at the page bottom. You might attach a scan of your print defect that way.

Although probably incomplete, I think of linear defects that run parallel to the paper path as handling marks. You mention the files print without marks when going to the Canson Velin. Can you replicate the defect on the HFA Bamboo when calling up the same driver and media handling choices that you use for the Canson media? I ask that question because those selections dictate the handling characteristics.

John Caldwell
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PatrickAllen

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Re: Problems with Hahnemuhle Bamboo
« Reply #2 on: August 27, 2013, 12:51:23 pm »

I can't say I have a solution to your problem but I can say that the Hahnemuhle Bamboo is one of the least problematic papers we have worked with. We have done multiple 1000 print runs on 17" roll of this paper with no problems at all. This being the complete opposite of Hahnemuhle Photo Rag Baryta which is beautiful but with so many blems that we had to give up on it. It's still possible you got a defective roll but just wanted to give you some feedback from someone who has used a lot of different papers and a lot of the bamboo in question. 

Best,
Patrick Allen
KenAllenStudios
PatrickAllenPhotography
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Malcolm Payne

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Re: Problems with Hahnemuhle Bamboo
« Reply #3 on: August 27, 2013, 04:17:47 pm »

Thanks, John & Patrick.

The paper suppliers agree that the sample prints show a problem, and have sent these off to the mill for their comments. I'm currently waiting for the mill's response, and will update when I have any further information.

The defective prints received back from the client show bands matching from print to print in each vertical column in the batch, but not between the columns; if anything, the marks in col. 2 are almost a mirror image of the marks in col. 1, though that may be purely a coincidence. They are very faint and exceptionally difficult to spot on most of the prints, and you do really have to be looking for them, but they do become a little easier to see as the eye 'tunes in'.

I have measured the positions of these bands on the returned prints very carefully according to their locations in the original batch print on the roll, and confirm as originally suspected that there is no consistent correlation with either the upper pressure rollers or the gaps between them. I am unable to think of any other printer fault or processing error that might cause similar artefacts, especially when they do not appear on the equivalent Canson paper.

One other observation - I printed a sample on the Bamboo for another client, and he commented that the surface scuffed and scratched more readily than Canson's Velin Museum Rag (though it was a relatively fresh print). It will be a shame if I can't get this sorted, as I rather like the Bamboo otherwise, but I can't risk either of these problems recurring for clients' work.
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Malcolm Payne

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Re: Problems with Hahnemuhle Bamboo
« Reply #4 on: September 18, 2013, 11:49:10 am »

Update: for anyone who might still be interested, I have just heard back from the paper suppliers this afternoon, and the mill have confirmed that there is an error in the coating on that batch and have offered a full credit on the faulty roll. The media concerned is Hahnemuhle Bamboo 290gsm, 44" roll, Ref. No. 10 643 464 and Batch No. (?) B:322 569-A.

I have attached an image of one of the faulty prints illustrating the defect in the form of faint bands running across the print (paper feed direction), as indicated by the arrows in the margin. This is one of the worst affected prints, but the bands are still very difficult to spot unless the lighting is angled just right, and near impossible on the less-affected ones unless you are specifically looking for them.

Anyway, at least I now know there isn't a problem with the printer or my production.
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BrianWJH

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Re: Problems with Hahnemuhle Bamboo
« Reply #5 on: September 18, 2013, 06:25:04 pm »

Thanks Malcolm for updating, it's a shame HM didn't send you a couple of 'free' rolls and some ink for your research/trouble would have cost them a lot more the longer it went undiagnosed.
Brian.
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fetish

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Re: Problems with Hahnemuhle Bamboo
« Reply #6 on: September 19, 2013, 04:27:40 pm »

It looks like the feed rollers crushed the surface of the paper where it applied pressure, and the lines are where pressure isnt applied (or vice versa)
I have some of this issues on my 11880 as well. Not all papers are vulnerable to this damage. When I see it happening, I manually lighten the roller pressure using a jig under the paper release handle.
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Malcolm Payne

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Re: Problems with Hahnemuhle Bamboo
« Reply #7 on: September 25, 2013, 07:25:34 am »

A final reply to @fetish, just to wrap this one up:

Thanks for the thought but, as per my earlier posting, I had measured the locations of the bands very carefully, even replacing the defective prints precisely back in their original positions in the printer, and in no case did the positions of the bands correlate consistently with either the pressure rollers themselves or the gaps between (which was my first concern also for a possible cause).

The mill confirmed it as a coating fault and I have just received a full credit from the paper suppliers, with the annotation "Light bands appeared on printed image due to coating fault. With apologies.". Hopefully the replacement roll from a different batch, when it arrives, will be free of the particular defect and will exhibit no further problems.
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