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Author Topic: RIP required for Adobe Illustrator vector artwork printing workflow?  (Read 10841 times)

pudlofink

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If somebody could tell me if I need a RIP it would be appreciated,
my workflow goes something like this:

draw an illustration onto paper and scan
vectorise and add color in Adobe Illustrator
add metadata keywords etc in Adobe Bridge
put up onto my website and hopefully someone will buy a print
print the illustration, pack it and ship it to them unframed (just the raw print at this stage)

The part I need help with of course is the printing.
I am going to get the Canon IPF8400 which will have drivers. But i notice some printers are marketed as 'Postscript' printers and this Canon doesn't get this label - for example the HP Z3200PS.
Because my file to print are Adobe Illustrator vector files will I need to get some kind of a postscript RIP so I can resize the image to the size I want to print each time, dynamically (ie I don't want to manually rasterize in Photoshop or anything like that, or have saved bitmap versions of each Illustrator artwork for the different print sizes).

If I do need a RIP what does it digest, the Illustrator files, or do I export from Illustrator to PDF, or print straight from Illustrator? At the moment this part is confusing me the most, and as RIPs are expensive, I want to get it right and only get one if I need it.

Any info would be great,
matt
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Scott Martin

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Re: RIP required for Adobe Illustrator vector artwork printing workflow?
« Reply #1 on: August 19, 2013, 11:22:51 am »

All Adobe products have a built in RIP that allows them to print to non-postscript inkjet printers wonderfully well. You'd only need a RIP if you needed the extra large print size support, tiling, nesting, or workflow options. Don't get a RIP unless you really, really need it for one of these reasons - the workflow and quality is really nice and simple without it.
« Last Edit: August 19, 2013, 03:26:52 pm by Scott Martin »
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langier

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Re: RIP required for Adobe Illustrator vector artwork printing workflow?
« Reply #2 on: August 19, 2013, 03:23:29 pm »

One of the best RIPs comes with the Creative Suite and Creative Cloud: Photoshop. Another approach is to save the file as a high-quality PDF and that will usually print pretty well.
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Scott Martin

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Re: RIP required for Adobe Illustrator vector artwork printing workflow?
« Reply #3 on: August 19, 2013, 03:29:58 pm »

One of the best RIPs comes with the Creative Suite and Creative Cloud: Photoshop. Another approach is to save the file as a high-quality PDF and that will usually print pretty well.

Well you can:
1) Print directly to an inkjet because Illustrator has a built-in RIP
2) Save to a PDF, open & RIP in Photoshop and print from there (if you like extra steps)
3) Save a PDF that you can't send directly to the printer, but can send through a variety of apps (mostly with limited CM options).
4) Save to a TIFF and print from Photoshop or Lightroom.

I'd say go for #1 unless you're running into problems with that.
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graeme

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Re: RIP required for Adobe Illustrator vector artwork printing workflow?
« Reply #4 on: August 20, 2013, 04:41:07 am »

Just print from Illustrator. Select and resize the artwork as required.

Graeme
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Ernst Dinkla

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Re: RIP required for Adobe Illustrator vector artwork printing workflow?
« Reply #5 on: August 20, 2013, 06:07:02 am »


draw an illustration onto paper and scan
vectorise and add color in Adobe Illustrator
add metadata keywords etc in Adobe Bridge
put up onto my website and hopefully someone will buy a print
print the illustration, pack it and ship it to them unframed (just the raw print at this stage)


I would add this to 2:  Use RGB description of the colors in Illustrator and make sure your color settings are correct.
To sRGB converted for the web and kept in AdobeRGB for the archive and print

And only vectorise if the design aims at hard-edge or related. If vectorised you have to think of a proper WEB vector format too and the issues of the color space then. It usually ends in a compromise of an RGB JPEG with sRGB assigned.

The rest at print time has been answered though I would go through Photoshop as a last check on colors and set the printer's preferred input resolution 300 or 600 PPI as the resolution for rasterisation. Of course the last can be done with a Tiff export from Illustrator too.

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pudlofink

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Re: RIP required for Adobe Illustrator vector artwork printing workflow?
« Reply #6 on: August 20, 2013, 11:53:13 am »

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All Adobe products have a built in RIP that allows them to print to non-postscript inkjet printers wonderfully well.
This is something I didn't expect, nice bonus from owning Illustrator! So I don't need to worry that when I print from illustrator my vector lines don’t appear pixelated, because illustrator translates the postscript language fully to the printer?

And, I can forget the Canon drivers that come with the IPF8400 because I won't be needing them if my printing is done from Illustrator?

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You'd only need a RIP if you needed the extra large print size support, tiling, nesting, or workflow options.
Sorry for asking as I should probably search but a bit lazy, but what is nesting and tiling? And extra large print size, is that ridiculously big, ie well in excess of 44" width

Quote
Just print from Illustrator. Select and resize the artwork as required.
can I just resize from the Print dialogue and leave the artwork in the document untouched and unscaled? I will check it out, thanks!

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I would add this to 2:  Use RGB description of the colors in Illustrator and make sure your color settings are correct.
Thankfully I did get this correct, I have set up the Document Color Mode in RGB for all my Illustrator files and also all the color swatches as RGB as well. I remember reading that when printing to an inkjet that it needs RGB files because the printer likes to convert it itself, but in offset press files needs to be cmyk.
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To sRGB converted for the web and kept in AdobeRGB for the archive and print
I didn't know this, I have never paid attention, do i check this option when saving? Can you explain a little more? does the sRGB make the colors more predictable so that what a person sees on their monitor would possibly be the closest that they will receive in their print? (high wishes I know)
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And only vectorise if the design aims at hard-edge or related.
The type of artwork is done with marker and pens onto paper so the hard edge is part of the style of the image, and is what makes it. I love the vector format, but it does have limitations and needs to be kept simple with the emphasis on original hand made shapes with simple flat color and the limited use of gradients. too many gradients makes it look cheap. It's hard to get texture with vectors so I concentrate on the use of shape, color and simplicity, with a twist of humour sometimes. Vector must be FUN and not too serious because vectors have the potential to be 'scary'.
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If vectorised you have to think of a proper WEB vector format too and the issues of the color space then. It usually ends in a compromise of an RGB JPEG with sRGB assigned.
hmm a vector web format, like the sound of it. I was currently along the lines of the JPEG for the website gallery display, this is what visitors would see and buy based on. It would be watermarked of course. The web gallery software I have bought and will use to set up is Stockboxphoto.
Quote
The rest at print time has been answered though I would go through Photoshop as a last check on colors and set the printer's preferred input resolution 300 or 600 PPI as the resolution for rasterisation. Of course the last can be done with a Tiff export from Illustrator too
with the Photoshop check, is this just opening/rasterizing the Illustrator artwork into Photoshop and eyeballing the colors in there, but still printing from Illustrator to the Inkjet?

Thanks all for your help, invaluable!

looking at printers yesterday and came across a Canon cashback deal for the IPF8400 of 2K, for the next month. I will end up paying $8200 in AU. I think it's still quite expensive compared to US pricing but that's normal. They came down from $11900 to $10200 and then the 2K cashback on that. If I buy from this particular supplier they will give me trade pricing on the media (which I assume is paper but also ink? will have to double check with them).
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Ernst Dinkla

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Re: RIP required for Adobe Illustrator vector artwork printing workflow?
« Reply #7 on: August 21, 2013, 04:49:55 am »

To print vectors and fonts at their best, several printer drivers actually add a super resolution mode called Fine Quality or similar. I still wonder whether your designs get their best translation to digital by vectorising them. A high resolution scan should keep the texture, the character, of the lines better. It is a different case when the felt pen designs are just the sketches/template for art to be made on the computer and it has to have a vector art appeal.

You will still need the Canon drivers for the Adobe applications and going the Photoshop route you can use the Canon plug-in driver that some consider the best.

Nesting is the way you can print more images next to one another on the width and length of the inkjet paper. Tiling is how you can print a big image on several smaller sheets and assemble them afterwards. RIPs can do that but there are several other applications for Windows and Mac that can do that. Far cheaper than a RIP and without the Postscript interpreting that is already covered by the Adobe applications.

If it is vector art in total and you print from Illustrator then your assumption about changing sizes in the driver is correct. If you go the pixels route then there are other methods to consider.

Export a separate JPEG to archive for the web with the color space converted to sRGB in PS, Illustr, etc. It is the best compromise for a world where color management is unsure. The display will still not be consistent per receiver but gets the best chances.  This includes tablets that take an increasing part in web use. The AdobeRGB or a wider color space for the print route will at least use the printer's gamut optimally if your image could use that. The less saturation down to B&W and that choice is not important anymore. No, your customer's displays will not represent that print but the few with color management used correctly. You get the best images for both routes.

That sound of vector web format could get shrill on its implantation in browsers of mobiles up to desktop machines and the color management possible for that format.

The Photoshop check is on the colors, gradients (add 1% G noise), so consider 16 bit at PDF import. Printing through the Canon plug-in driver keeps it at 16 bit. A split PS/Ill on the check/print phase probably will be the worst choice. I actually would make a mother Tiff, 16 bit, highest resolution you can handle and keep that as a base for different sizes output.

Using HP Zs here and printing from Qimage Ultimate so this has been written on what would my approach in your case.

Not lazy but exhausted now so you are on your own from here.


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startkapital

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Re: RIP required for Adobe Illustrator vector artwork printing workflow?
« Reply #8 on: August 21, 2013, 07:26:24 am »

Sometime I have to print Design Layout for customers
most of them are Indesign files or Illustrator files
also most of them are in CYMK Colorspace which gives me always an headache!

I am used to print from Photoshop or Qimage "photo" only
since the color management workflow is rather easy.
BUT with indesign its a mess.. I find myself often converting the indesign file into a printable PDF
then save each page of the pdf as uncompress tiff
convert the working colorspace from cymk to sRGB and then print them with Qimage

Its a whole uneccessary steps I guess but up to know I cant find another relyable solution for printing exact printer colorprofiles and
exact paper dimensions that I need.

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pudlofink

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Re: RIP required for Adobe Illustrator vector artwork printing workflow?
« Reply #9 on: August 22, 2013, 09:12:30 am »

Quote
I still wonder whether your designs get their best translation to digital by vectorising them. A high resolution scan should keep the texture, the character, of the lines better. It is a different case when the felt pen designs are just the sketches/template for art to be made on the computer and it has to have a vector art appeal.
I use a program called Vector Magic. In a nutshell it's awesome, much better than Illustrators auto trace, and captures all the nuances of the linework. Once in vector form it's a pleasure to then change the colors and modify the shapes if I need to, than if it were a bitmap. I am always shaking my head every time I import a scanned A4 page of my hand drawn lineart through it, and using the basic auto settings, compare the scan to the vectorised version. A real time saver and better then hand vectorsing, which would cause a slight re-imagining/re-interpretation of the original art, often to the detriment of the art. The number of nodes and path segments is just what is needed, and the paths are always closed.

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RIPs can do that but there are several other applications for Windows and Mac that can do that. Far cheaper than a RIP and without the Postscript interpreting that is already covered by the Adobe applications.
Excellent. I will look into Qmage to see how it integrates with Illustrator, hope it work with vectors, it might need an EPS file rather than native Ai. I'm feeling that I will need these additional layout features, depending on my image to paper requirements.

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I actually would make a mother Tiff, 16 bit, highest resolution you can handle and keep that as a base for different sizes output.
Ok so you're suggesting this rather than printing from Illustrator, as an alternative. And this enables me to add noise to iron out some of the potential gradient banding I might get if printing directly from the vector file.
The files are vector art in total, yes. I've tried to make this one of the features as in avoided the temptation to combine more photographic or textural effects. Sometimes its hard not to! But in the end the art benefits, because I'm not compromising on the stylistic quality I'm looking for by mixing too many different techniques etc. many times a simple area of flat color looks better than a more sophisticated blended effect or complicated derived imagery because it speaks directly, and looks more pop art. but not always.

this thread has been a great help

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JRSmit

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Re: RIP required for Adobe Illustrator vector artwork printing workflow?
« Reply #10 on: August 22, 2013, 11:10:53 am »

you could also have a look a Mirage, www.dinax.de . It is not a rip but a well functional frontend to epson printers, and has a plugin for illustrator.
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Ernst Dinkla

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Re: RIP required for Adobe Illustrator vector artwork printing workflow?
« Reply #11 on: August 22, 2013, 11:56:16 am »


Excellent. I will look into Qmage to see how it integrates with Illustrator, hope it work with vectors, it might need an EPS file rather than native Ai. I'm feeling that I will need these additional layout features, depending on my image to paper requirements.

Ok so you're suggesting this rather than printing from Illustrator, as an alternative. And this enables me to add noise to iron out some of the potential gradient banding I might get if printing directly from the vector file.


Qimage Ultimate is limited to RGB, Pixels, Windows. No Postscript/PDF/EPS interpretation at all. Jpeg and Tiff input preferably.

Yes, it allows you to add that noise then.

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pudlofink

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Re: RIP required for Adobe Illustrator vector artwork printing workflow?
« Reply #12 on: August 23, 2013, 07:55:52 am »

Mike from Qimage just replied to me today with the same. So looks like I'll need to go the Mother Tiff route to use Qimages features. As the vector is rasterized for inkjet printing anyway I can't see why it would be a problem quality wise, just an extra step to save the tiff.

Quote
I am used to print from Photoshop or Qimage "photo" only
since the color management workflow is rather easy.
BUT with indesign its a mess.. I find myself often converting the indesign file into a printable PDF
then save each page of the pdf as uncompress tiff
convert the working colorspace from cymk to sRGB and then print them with Qimage

I use Indesign at work on a Mac and every time I go to print the program crashes so I always export to a PDF and print from that. I don't know if its the Mac OS or Indesign creating the problem.

Checking out Mirage now and seeing if its compatible with Canon printers
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